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Alterações na Política de Privacidade e nos Termos de Serviço do Google

2012-01-28T11:46:00.001-08:00

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Caro usuário do Google, Estamos substituindo mais de 60 políticas de privacidade diferentes do Google por uma política mais concisa e fácil de ler. A nova política abrange vários produtos e recursos, refletindo nosso objetivo de criar uma experiência extremamente simples e intuitiva em todos os produtos do Google. Isto é importante. Assim, dedique alguns minutos para ler as versões atualizadas da nossa Política de Privacidade e dos nossos Termos de Serviço em http://www.google.com/policies. Estas mudanças entrarão em vigor no dia 1º de março de 2012.
Uma política, uma experiência no Google

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alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim - 26 new messages in 10 topics - digest

2011-11-28T14:52:00.001-08:00

alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim?hl=en

alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's the deal with SID's and STAR's?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/ef6fb5c974c454e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 11:40 pm
From: "John Ward"

Nap of the earth?

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:985152269344154748.290333Cybnorm-spam_me_not.hotmail.com@news.east.earthlink.net...
> Copter_Six <c6@texas.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm no expert .... I flew mainly NOE.
>
>
> Ok... I'll bite... What's NOE?
>
>
>
> --
> Dallas

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 1:53 am
From: Copter_Six

On 11/28/2011 1:40 AM, John Ward wrote:
> Nap of the earth?
>
> JW
>
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:985152269344154748.290333Cybnorm-spam_me_not.hotmail.com@news.east.earthlink.net...
>
>> Copter_Six <c6@texas.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm no expert .... I flew mainly NOE.
>>
>>
>> Ok... I'll bite... What's NOE?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dallas
>

ding ding ding .... John gets the prize..........

Tree top level or below.

Copter Six
*Psychopath: A Journey Through the Madness*
=================================================
>Hopefully, you haven't ignited another flame war.

Que sera, sera...

walnut war cry
______________
/ \
| WHAAAAAAAAAAA! |
\__ _________/
/ ,'
_.~._ /,'
,~'.~@~.`~.
/ : _..._ : \
{ :,"''\\`".: }
`C) 0 _ 0 (--.._,-"""-.__
( ) @ ( ) `.
`-.-_-.-' \
,' \ / ,` ;`-._,-.
,' ,'/ ,' `---t.,-. \_
,--.,',' ,'----.__\ _( \----'
'///,`,--.,' `-.__.--' `. )
'///,' `-`

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 7:51 am
From: "Dallas"

Copter_Six wrote:

> ding ding ding .... John gets the prize..........
>
> Tree top level or below.

Yah, I bet he Googled it...

:-p

--
Dallas

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 11:41 am
From: "John Ward"

Hi Varmit,

Nope.

I first heard the term when I used to work at Flying Fighters out at
Archerfield. I used to take every opportunity to talk to any pilots, just on
the off chance i might learn a few things.

I've also heard the term in connection with my work as part of the mob
setting up Brisbane's first Aviation Museum, in Hangar 7 out at Eagle Farm.
Hangar 7 is Heritage Listed since it was the one the Allies used as a base
for comparative testing against captured/rebuilt Japanese aircraft during
WWII, while MacArthur was Headquartered here in Brisbane. Amongst other
things, we've secured an F-111 for the Museum.

There's no US Consulate in Brisbane, so four times a year they come up
from Sydney and use the MacArthur Museum premises to do their stuff.

The Australia America Association also use our premises at the MacArthur
Museum regularly.

http://www.americanaustralian.org/

Probably due to the above two connections, whenever a US Navy vessel
comes to Brisbane, all the MacArthur Museum staff get invited out for a
tour - so far, I've been on three carriers and one submarine, plus some
smaller vessels.

I'm Vice President in at the Douglas MacArthur Museum, and I always take
any opportunity to talk to any pilots, just on the off chance I might learn
a few things.

We have our monthly meetings of the Aviation Historical Society of
Australia out at the Royal Aero Club at Archerfield, and one of the regulars
used to fly combat missions in P-51s during the Korean war. I got lucky a
couple of years ago when he invited me over to his home and spent the best
part of a day showing me all his personal memorabilia, and talking about his
whole career. I took every opportunity to ask a few questions, just on the
off chance I might learn a few things.

I've also seen the term in some of the Warbird magazines I've subscribed
to for a few years now.

:-))

Regards,
John Ward

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:ebCdnYPW67CYM07TnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> Copter_Six wrote:
>
>> ding ding ding .... John gets the prize..........
>>
>> Tree top level or below.
>
> Yah, I bet he Googled it...
>
> :-p
>
> --
> Dallas

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 1:05 pm
From: "Danny"

That is good thinking, John Ward. It lets me know...I need to talk to more
people, in the off chance they could learn something! :-)

Danny

"John Ward" wrote in message news:4ed3e3de$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Hi Varmit,

Nope.

I first heard the term when I used to work at Flying Fighters out at
Archerfield. I used to take every opportunity to talk to any pilots, just on
the off chance i might learn a few things.

There's no US Consulate in Brisbane, so four times a year they come up
from Sydney and use the MacArthur Museum premises to do their stuff.

The Australia America Association also use our premises at the MacArthur
Museum regularly.

http://www.americanaustralian.org/

I'm Vice President in at the Douglas MacArthur Museum, and I always take
any opportunity to talk to any pilots, just on the off chance I might learn
a few things.

I've also seen the term in some of the Warbird magazines I've subscribed
to for a few years now.

:-))

Regards,
John Ward

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 1:14 pm
From: "Dallas"

John Ward wrote:

> I'm Vice President in at the Douglas MacArthur Museum,

Whoa... cool... I didn't realize you'd been promoted to executive.

--
Dallas

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OMGWTF!!! X-Plane 10 demo is out!
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/19a7aa441597aadd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 12:53 am
From: Copter_Six

On 11/26/2011 12:07 PM, BillW50 wrote:
> On 11/26/2011 11:20 AM, Gregory wrote:
>> I tried to run X-Plane 9 demo in May 2011 on the new Dell portable PC
>> (Win7/32, Intel Core2 Duo E7400, 4096 RAM, DX11) however it has
>> a crappy Intel 4 Series integrated video chip w/1.4GB video memory.
>> The demo was an awful slide show, mostly through fog and haze.
>> Only ran it once or twice for just a couple minutes.
>
> I am actually surprised by Intel's integrated graphics. No, not how
> great it is (because it isn't). But rather it does better than I would
> have expected. As some things it can handle quite well. For example
> MSFS2k2 does pretty well. FS2004 is okay if you turn the graphics down.
> But FSX I never got usable with integrated graphics. And X-Plane 9
> seemed to be just as bad as FSX was with IG.
>
> Now having said all of this. I also have five Alienware machines and
> four of them has dual GPUs. And here X-Plane 9 and FSX runs great. And
> during the winter months, these machines also double as space heaters
> too. ;-)
>

BillW ....... It's good to see you posting again. Why the long absence?

Copter Six
*Psychopath: A Journey Through the Madness*
=================================================
>Hopefully, you haven't ignited another flame war.

Que sera, sera...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Aerosoft's flightsim contender
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/cc674c40fd3c1827?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 6:26 am
From: "." <.@..com>

I wonder about it too. Nothing mentioned for a long time now. Is it dead?
Will it be a big surprise?

Also, why was MS flight! pulled for a Xmas release? Quality? Not up to
scratch?

S.....

"Gonebush" <gonebush3@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a518a45-2ef8-4faf-8e52-0f43c922db92@j1g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> Hi there, brothers in alms
>
> It's been some time since I last heard of Aerosoft's proposals to
> develop a new flightsim platform.
>
> Perhaps that's because I'm not the most energetic of interenet
> researchers.
>
> It sounded promising though. Remember that Mathijs Kok was asking what
> we wanted?
>
> Anyone hear what's become of the project?
>
> GB
> CHCH
> NZ

==============================================================================
TOPIC: c130J
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/982ba6610fbe7086?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 7:08 am
From: Mad Mike

On Nov 27, 5:39 pm, EddieLo <hawaii...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Grab a barf bag, crank the sound and hold on!
>
> Full screen too.
>
> http://vimeo.com/32377125

Looks like standard aeilerons are the way to go!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 7:10 am
From: Mad Mike

On Nov 27, 5:39 pm, EddieLo <hawaii...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Grab a barf bag, crank the sound and hold on!
>
> Full screen too.
>
> http://vimeo.com/32377125

I'm impressed with the iPhone 4 video quality!
MM

==============================================================================
TOPIC: More RC flying
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/25d8f60e28a5d308?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 7:56 am
From: "Dallas"

Gregory wrote:

> Flying upside down and slow, doing upside-down
> loops, holding hammerheads and flying sideways, it's all really fake.

Ya mean like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tzowQtqOM_I

--
Dallas

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 12:01 pm
From: "John Ward"

Hi Varmit,

STREWTH, mate!!

Some SERIOUS skill there, both in the flying AND the building - did you
notice the line up of aircraft in the background at the beginning of the
video......

Regards,
John Ward

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:ebCdnYLW67C9Mk7TnZ2dnUVZ_oIAAAAA@earthlink.com...
> Gregory wrote:
>
>> Flying upside down and slow, doing upside-down
>> loops, holding hammerheads and flying sideways, it's all really fake.
>
> Ya mean like this?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tzowQtqOM_I
>
> --
> Dallas

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 1:10 pm
From: "Dallas"

John Ward wrote:

> Hi Varmit,
>
> STREWTH, mate!!
>
> Some SERIOUS skill there, both in the flying AND the building - did
> you notice the line up of aircraft in the background at the beginning
> of the video......

Quite amazing, especially considering he has to fly it while it's
coming at him, going away from him and climbing up, down and spinning
in all directions. His brain must be on a gimbal.

I also wondered how he could roll the aircraft with almost no forward
speed, then I got a close up shot... his ailerons span the whole wing
right to the root and the prop wash provides the airflow to spin him.

--
Dallas

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Possible bargains to be had ?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/5b93e261a31efdb8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 9:11 am
From: Pete

Dunno if there is anything here for anyone. I just came across the
link.

http://www.fspilotshop.com/specials.php

Regards Pete

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 1:16 pm
From: "Dallas"

I'm looking for a $16.00 CH Products Eclipse Yoke.

--
Dallas

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 1:50 pm
From: Tom Duhamel

On 2011-11-28 16:16, Dallas wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a $16.00 CH Products Eclipse Yoke.
>
>

LOL

==============================================================================
TOPIC: X-Plane 10
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/c26b2f65670a5efb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 9:44 am
From: "Danny"

I got the demo of X-Plane 10 installed or will they call it X-PLANE-X (hope
not)

I am really impressed with what I see. It does NOT have Orbx quality scenery
by any means, but very pleasing to the eye.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Baron_58_747.jpg

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Baron_58_2.jpg

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Cessna_172SP_2.png

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/CL415_1.jpg

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Cessna_172SP_1.jpg

I am still working to get some keystrokes to match those I frequently use in
FS10. I do NOT like the way the helicopter flies in XPlane. I doubt the
FS10 or XP10 helicopters are anything like real. But I certainly prefer
FS10 helos. I don't seem to have any ATC? I pressed the assigned key and a
window pops up for Flight Plan! Maybe I have turned it off. Need to check
the settings.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 2:28 pm
From: raamman

On Nov 28, 12:44 pm, "Danny" <drmc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I got the demo of X-Plane 10 installed or will they call it X-PLANE-X (hope
> not)
>
> I am really impressed with what I see. It does NOT have Orbx quality scenery
> by any means, but very pleasing to the eye.
>
> http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Baron_58_747.jpg
>
> http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Baron_58_2.jpg
>
> http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Cessna_172SP_2.png
>
> http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/CL415_1.jpg
>
> http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Cessna_172SP_1.jpg
>
> I am still working to get some keystrokes to match those I frequently use in
> FS10. I do NOT like the way the helicopter flies in XPlane. I doubt the
> FS10 or XP10 helicopters are anything like real. But I certainly prefer
> FS10 helos. I don't seem to have any ATC? I pressed the assigned key and a
> window pops up for Flight Plan! Maybe I have turned it off. Need to check
> the settings.

x plane x ha ha ha

eventually we'll have xplane xxx
or xxxplane ?

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 2:32 pm
From: raamman

looks like they fixed/brightened the colour scheme some but I dont
like the lawn roads at all thanx for the pics

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 2:50 pm
From: "Danny"

Welllllll. Don't give them too much credit for the brighter colors. I use
Irfanview (free at irfanview.com) for my photos and have for 10 years or
more. I can easily enhance the color saturation and sharpness of the screen
cap, and I usually do so when posting. The colors of the screen caps always
look a little 'less bright' than what I see in the sim, so I just do a bit
of enhancements.

"raamman" wrote in message
news:82041b0b-2faa-40f2-aafe-bb4fcd165ae4@k26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

On Nov 28, 12:44 pm, "Danny" <drmc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I got the demo of X-Plane 10 installed or will they call it X-PLANE-X
> (hope
> not)
>
> I am really impressed with what I see. It does NOT have Orbx quality
> scenery
> by any means, but very pleasing to the eye.
>
> http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Baron_58_747.jpg
>
> http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Baron_58_2.jpg
>
> http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Cessna_172SP_2.png
>
> http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/CL415_1.jpg
>
> http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/dannymckee/Cessna_172SP_1.jpg
>
> I am still working to get some keystrokes to match those I frequently use
> in
> FS10. I do NOT like the way the helicopter flies in XPlane. I doubt the
> FS10 or XP10 helicopters are anything like real. But I certainly prefer
> FS10 helos. I don't seem to have any ATC? I pressed the assigned key and
> a
> window pops up for Flight Plan! Maybe I have turned it off. Need to
> check
> the settings.

looks like they fixed/brightened the colour scheme some but I dont
like the lawn roads at all thanx for the pics

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Which one?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/9bde62a6d97d6eff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 11:52 am
From: "Loek"

"raamman" schreef in bericht
news:4c3dff58-5955-4788-8031-15f4e75d133f@g21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

On Nov 27, 5:08 pm, NM5K <n...@invalid.net> wrote:
> On 11/27/2011 3:54 PM, Osbert Whittlebot wrote:
>
> > The best you can afford (ideally Gold - which includes the SDK). Don't
> > forget to patch it up to SP2 (both SP's free from MS site).
>
> > Enjoy
>
> > Osbert (etc, etc)
>
> You don't need to do that if you install Acceleration.
> Acceleration includes FSX SP2.
> So if you buy the Gold version, it already has the latest
> service packs assuming you install all three DVD's.
>
>no one wants to suggest x10?

Thanks for the advises guys. But I had the same question. How about DX-10?

Loek

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 1:29 pm
From: "Loek"

"Loek" schreef in bericht
news:4ed3e672$0$7010$a9266ab1@news.buzzardnews.com...

"raamman" schreef in bericht
news:4c3dff58-5955-4788-8031-15f4e75d133f@g21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

Loek

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 1:46 pm
From: Tom Duhamel

On 2011-11-28 16:29, Loek wrote:
>> Thanks for the advises guys. But I had the same question. How about DX-10?
>> >
>> >Loek
>> >
> Eeehr, Windows 7 already has DirectX 11.......
>
> Loek
>
>

Nice, you answered the question by yourself!

But you know, there are no stupid question, just stupid... heee... never
mind :)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Very nice Avro Lancaster Bomber from First Class simulations
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/d141c6d53af9ce0c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 1:24 pm
From: "Dallas"

Yer supposed to land on the dashed line, not the solid one.

[snicker]

You should be expecting the FAA to be calling you soon after receiving
several dozen noise abatement complaints from the towns residents.

[snicker]

Seriously, some of your videos actually make me wish I had FSX
installed.

--
Dallas

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 2:42 pm
From: "Danny"

Well you obviously did not read the reports of the earthquakes in the region
just as I was touching down.

THE GROUND MOVED.

"Dallas" wrote in message
news:fO6dnZD6iJO-YU7TnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

Yer supposed to land on the dashed line, not the solid one.

[snicker]

You should be expecting the FAA to be calling you soon after receiving
several dozen noise abatement complaints from the towns residents.

[snicker]

Seriously, some of your videos actually make me wish I had FSX
installed.

--
Dallas

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Semi-OT: North VA chapter RC video
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/3fcfcf7923db22c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 1:32 pm
From: "Dallas"

Gregory wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5J-KRv5-3s

I thought the terrain landclass looked kinda fakey.

--
Dallas

==============================================================================

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rec.games.bridge - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

2011-11-28T12:09:00.001-08:00

rec.games.bridge
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge?hl=en

rec.games.bridge@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you pre-empt in 2nd seat?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/adade20a74f4979d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 9:04 pm
From: Player

On Nov 25, 8:33 pm, "dak...@aol.com" <dak...@aol.com> wrote:
> 2-seat I'm really afraid LHO has a monster:
> 18+ and opponents will find game. NOT.!
> Let partner have his description.

I don't understand this post at all. Can anyone translate for me
please?
Ron

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 12:27 am
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)

In article <b9ffaa5a-0e41-411b-a3a3-5d6483553312@s17g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
Player <ronlel@msn.com> wrote:
>On Nov 25, 8:33 pm, "dak...@aol.com" <dak...@aol.com> wrote:
>> 2-seat I'm really afraid LHO has a monster:
>> 18+ and opponents will find game. NOT.!
>> Let partner have his description.
>
>I don't understand this post at all. Can anyone translate for me
>please?

Translation:

"Since I'm in second seat, opponents will probably only have game
if my LHO has an 18+ monster hand. I'm not afraid of that. So,
I'll pass so that my partner can describe his hand -- instead of
me misdescribing mine."

--
David Goldfarb |"I see more than you, child. I see an end to hell.
goldfarbdj@gmail.com | What do you see?"
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu | "I see a man in a lot of pain."
|"Pain? Yes. Consider it a preview." -- _Zot!_ #18

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 8:43 am
From: KWSchneider

On Nov 25, 7:50 am, Sunrise <sunrise9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMP
> NV vs NV
>
> You hold
>
> 9xxx
> x
> AK76xxx (7)
> x
>
> RHO passes
> What do you bid in your system?
> Do you consider the 4S a deterrent for preempting?
> What are your requirements in 2nd seat?
>
> Thank you for your ideas

Too much defense - 3 controls is a pre-empt buster. Make the DA the
DQ, then I pre-empt. Here I stay quiet for one round.

Kurt

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 10:37 am
From: Will in New Haven

On Nov 25, 7:50 am, Sunrise <sunrise9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMP
> NV vs NV
>
> You hold
>
> 9xxx
> x
> AK76xxx (7)
> x
>
> RHO passes
> What do you bid in your system?

I pass

> Do you consider the 4S a deterrent for preempting?

Yes, but it isn't decisive by itself.

> What are your requirements in 2nd seat?

No flaws. The four-card Spade holding is a flaw. AK7 is not an ideal
holding at the top of a preemptive suit. KQJ or KQT is much better and
even KQX is as good. The hand has too many controls. I would open this
3D only in third seat. Pass in any other. Playing less disciplined
preempts, I would also open this in first seat but not in second and I
sometimes do play them less disciplined.

--
Will in New Haven

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A form of 3C Puppet Stayman over 1NT opening bids
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/ac5a2a526e12952f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 1:43 am
From: rhm

On Nov 27, 2:33 pm, "Bud Hinckley" <budh9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The form of 3C Puppet Stayman used over 1NT opening bids described by Justin
> Lall (and congrats to him for winning the Nail Life Master Pairs in Seattle
> yesterday) at
>
> http://justinlall.com/2011/09/07/puppet-stayman-after-a-1n-opener/
>
> which he credits learning from Joe Grue does a great job of hiding
> information from the defenders by not giving away needless information about
> the 1NT opener's hand when responder has a game forcing hand with minimal
> slam interest.
>
> The major features of this form of 3C Puppet Stayman over 1NT are:
>
> 1. Opener can only bid 3D (denying a 5-card major) or 3 of a major showing
> a 5-card suit. 3NT is NOT an allowed response.
>
> 2. Responder uses 3C Puppet Stayman with ONE 4-card major. Responder uses
> regular 2C Stayman with TWO 4-card majors.
>
> One question asked about this method is how you find your 8-card fits when
> responder is 3-5 (3 spades, 5 hearts) or 5-3 (5 spades, 3 hearts).
>
> I have invented a solution to this problem thanks to the use of this form of
> 3C Puppet Stayman that Justin has described. An additional benefit is that
> the 1NT opening bidder will be declarer in all cases.
>
> The two auctions 1NT-2C-2H-3NT and 1NT-2C-2S-3NT cannot theoretically occur
> because responder would have bid 3C Puppet Stayman with a single 4-card
> major. We can use these two auctions artificially to show 3-card support
> for opener's major with 5 cards in the other major.
>
> But what if opener bids 2D denying a major? Then you fake a Smolen bid,
> jumping to 3 of your 3-card major, and in the process showing five cards in
> the other major, which is the only suit at that point in which you can have
> an 8-card fit.
>
> In summary,
>
> 1. With 3-5 in the majors, use regular 2C Stayman and here are your three
> auctions:
>
> (a) 1NT-2C-2D-3S (shows five hearts via fake Smolen)
> (b) 1NT-2C-2H-4H
> (c) 1NT-2C-2S-3NT (choice of games with 3-5 majors)
>
> 2. With 5-3 in the majors, you use regular 2C Stayman and here are your
> three auctions:
>
> (a) 1NT-2C-2D-3H (shows five spades via fake Smolen)
> (b) 1NT-2C-2H-3NT (choice of games with 5-3 majors)
> (c) 1NT-2C-2S-4S
>
> Here is a table of the responses I have constructed for several major suit
> distributions held by responder when he holds a game forcing hand without
> slam interest after partner opens 1NT:
>
> One or two 3-card majors
>
> 3C, then raise opener's 5-card major to game or over 3D bid 3NT
>
> One 4-card major (possibly with a 3-card major)
>
> 3C, then over 3D bid the 4-card major you do NOT hold
>
> 3-5 or 5-3 majors
>
> 2C - 2D - 3 of your 3-card major (faking Smolen to show your 5-card
> major)
> 2C - 2 of your 3-card major - 3NT (artificial) showing the 3-5 or 5-3
> majors
> 2C - 2 of your 5-card major - 4 of the major
>
> 4-4 majors
>
> 2C, then raise opener's major to game or bid 3NT
>
> 4-5 or 5-4 majors
>
> 2C, then Smolen over 2D or raise opener's major to game
>
> 4-6 or 6-4 majors
>
> 2C Stayman, then raise opener's major to game or over 2D use delayed
> Texas; or use Texas directly and give up on the possible fit in the other
> major
>
> 5-5 majors
>
> Transfer to 2S and bid 3H; OR
> Use 3D, 3H, or 3S to show a 5-5 majors game force
>
> You can also show hands with some slam interest that are 5332 type shape
> with a long minor and also 4432 type shapes with one 4-card major and one
> 4-card minor by first starting with 3C Puppet Stayman. You can learn more
> about those at the end of Justin's description of the convention.
>
> Bud Hinckley
> budh9...@gmail.com

There is at least one drawback not mentioned by you nor Justin Lall
about this approach.
Responder is supposed to bid the major he does not have over the
likely 3D response to rightsize a possible 4-4 major suit contract.
This gives the partner of the opening leader a cheap option to double
for the lead, when responder bids the major he does not have. Less
likely but certainly possible, it might even pave the way for a cheap
sacrifice in spades; say at favorable vulnerability. .
It can also help the opening leader by the negative inference when
this bid is not doubled.
3NT contracts are quite frequently made when opening leader does not
find the best lead.
This usually happens when the defense should establish the suit held
by the partner of the opening leader.
So this approach gains by hiding declarer's distribution, in
particular when he has the major responder does not have, and looses
by helping the defender on lead.

Since I never played this version, i can not tell whether there is any
net gain at all. .

I think as declarer I prefer the standard auction of

1NT--2C
2D--3NT

1NT--3C
3D-- 3M (the major responder does not have)
3NT

True, in the first auction the defense knows declarer has no major but
has little clue what to lead.
In the second case it knows the major which will come down in dummy,
which they might well lead on the first auction, since the defense has
6 to 7 cards there.
Overall I am not convinced.

Rainer Herrmann

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 10:00 am
From: KWSchneider

On Nov 27, 8:33 am, "Bud Hinckley" <budh9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The form of 3C Puppet Stayman used over 1NT opening bids described by Justin
> Lall (and congrats to him for winning the Nail Life Master Pairs in Seattle
> yesterday) at
>
> http://justinlall.com/2011/09/07/puppet-stayman-after-a-1n-opener/
>
> which he credits learning from Joe Grue does a great job of hiding
> information from the defenders by not giving away needless information about
> the 1NT opener's hand when responder has a game forcing hand with minimal
> slam interest.
>
> The major features of this form of 3C Puppet Stayman over 1NT are:
>
> 1. Opener can only bid 3D (denying a 5-card major) or 3 of a major showing
> a 5-card suit. 3NT is NOT an allowed response.
>
> 2. Responder uses 3C Puppet Stayman with ONE 4-card major. Responder uses
> regular 2C Stayman with TWO 4-card majors.
>
> One question asked about this method is how you find your 8-card fits when
> responder is 3-5 (3 spades, 5 hearts) or 5-3 (5 spades, 3 hearts).
>
> I have invented a solution to this problem thanks to the use of this form of
> 3C Puppet Stayman that Justin has described. An additional benefit is that
> the 1NT opening bidder will be declarer in all cases.
>
> The two auctions 1NT-2C-2H-3NT and 1NT-2C-2S-3NT cannot theoretically occur
> because responder would have bid 3C Puppet Stayman with a single 4-card
> major. We can use these two auctions artificially to show 3-card support
> for opener's major with 5 cards in the other major.
>
> But what if opener bids 2D denying a major? Then you fake a Smolen bid,
> jumping to 3 of your 3-card major, and in the process showing five cards in
> the other major, which is the only suit at that point in which you can have
> an 8-card fit.
>
> In summary,
>
> 1. With 3-5 in the majors, use regular 2C Stayman and here are your three
> auctions:
>
> (a) 1NT-2C-2D-3S (shows five hearts via fake Smolen)
> (b) 1NT-2C-2H-4H
> (c) 1NT-2C-2S-3NT (choice of games with 3-5 majors)
>
> 2. With 5-3 in the majors, you use regular 2C Stayman and here are your
> three auctions:
>
> (a) 1NT-2C-2D-3H (shows five spades via fake Smolen)
> (b) 1NT-2C-2H-3NT (choice of games with 5-3 majors)
> (c) 1NT-2C-2S-4S
>
> Here is a table of the responses I have constructed for several major suit
> distributions held by responder when he holds a game forcing hand without
> slam interest after partner opens 1NT:
>
> One or two 3-card majors
>
> 3C, then raise opener's 5-card major to game or over 3D bid 3NT
>
> One 4-card major (possibly with a 3-card major)
>
> 3C, then over 3D bid the 4-card major you do NOT hold
>
> 3-5 or 5-3 majors
>
> 2C - 2D - 3 of your 3-card major (faking Smolen to show your 5-card
> major)
> 2C - 2 of your 3-card major - 3NT (artificial) showing the 3-5 or 5-3
> majors
> 2C - 2 of your 5-card major - 4 of the major
>
> 4-4 majors
>
> 2C, then raise opener's major to game or bid 3NT
>
> 4-5 or 5-4 majors
>
> 2C, then Smolen over 2D or raise opener's major to game
>
> 4-6 or 6-4 majors
>
> 2C Stayman, then raise opener's major to game or over 2D use delayed
> Texas; or use Texas directly and give up on the possible fit in the other
> major
>
> 5-5 majors
>
> Transfer to 2S and bid 3H; OR
> Use 3D, 3H, or 3S to show a 5-5 majors game force
>
> You can also show hands with some slam interest that are 5332 type shape
> with a long minor and also 4432 type shapes with one 4-card major and one
> 4-card minor by first starting with 3C Puppet Stayman. You can learn more
> about those at the end of Justin's description of the convention.
>
> Bud Hinckley
> budh9...@gmail.com

I've designed snd play a Stayman version that I feel is superior. It
involves 5card Stayman and 4+card transfers.

2C = 5card Stayman [invitational+, shows 3card major [unbalanced] or
5+card major, denies exactly 4cards in a major UNLESS with 5+cards in
other major]. Then:
2D = no 5c major, then 2M = to play, 3C = 4h5+s, 3D = 4s5+h [note
that both of these are forcing, and therefore responder can be
unlimited], 2N/3M are GF [2N = with unknown 5cM but likely 5M332 with
good offsuit, 3M = unbalanced or 6cards]
2M = 5cM [no interest in accepting invitation]
3M = 5cM [accept with weak doubleton]
2N = 5cM [accept with interest in notrump]
2R = either 4card major [invitational+] or 5+card major [weak]
2M = 2-3 cards in major - weak responder passes, invitational
hand bids 2N or 3m [canape], GF bids 3N
2N = 4cards with 4M333 - weak responder either retransfers or
directly bids 3M [choice since opener is defined]
3M = 4cards [likely 4432] - responder passes/bids game with weak
hand, otherwise bids 3N [4M333], 4m [cue], 4M [to play]
2S = range ask [initiates all minor suit slam investigations] or weak
minors [usual handling, denies 4+M] - opener bids 2N with minimum, 3C
with max [other extensions for slam purposes]
2N = clubs
3C = diamonds
3D = majors [invitational+]
3M = GF+ splinter with 1=3(xy) or 3=1(xy) shape - allows opener to
play in Moysian
3N = to play
4C = Gerber
4R = xfer

Benefits:

1) Opener plays all 44 major contracts without divulging any shape
2) Opener plays ALL smolen contracts without divulging any shape
3) Opener plays all 3N contracts opposite a partner who would have
used conventional stayman but hasn't divulged any shape including
presence or absence of the other 4card major]
4) Opener stil plays all weak 2M hands opposite responders with 5+M
5) Both opener and responder can show 4M333 hands and give choice of
games to partner

Kurt

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to deal with interference over 1N?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/4f4eca598fee0d73?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 2:00 am
From: gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)

In article <gTcAq.35607$t37.9985@newsfe14.iad>,
Lorne <lorne_anderson@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Kenny McCormack" wrote in message news:jar5q3$2ln$1@news.xmission.com...
>
>I'm looking for two things in this post/thread:
>
> 1) A general outlook/system/plan (to "How do people deal with
>interference over their 1N openings)
>.................................................................
>
>Play transfers from 2N to 3S:

Incidentally, this is known (in the big bad real world) as Rubensohl, right?

Or did you change anything from that available in published sources (e.g.,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubensohl) ?

--
(This discussion group is about C, ...)

Wrong. It is only OCCASIONALLY a discussion group
about C; mostly, like most "discussion" groups, it is
off-topic Rorsharch [sic] revelations of the childhood
traumas of the participants...

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 11:01 am
From: KWSchneider

On Nov 26, 11:57 am, gaze...@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
wrote:
> I'm looking for two things in this post/thread:
>
> 1) A general outlook/system/plan (to "How do people deal with
> interference over their 1N openings)
> 2) Answers to a specific set of questions
>
> The specific question is: Suppose you have a typical hand with 5 hearts
> where strength is weak/intermediate/strong (where we interpret these terms
> to mean "signoff/invitation/forcing" in the context of whatever your opening
> 1N range is). Partner opens 1N, next hand bids 2S, what do you do with each
> of these hands? Note that in all cases, had there been no interference,
> you'd have started with a 2D transfer. But now what?
>
> --
>
> Some of the more common characteristics of Asperger syndrome include:
>
> * Inability to think in abstract ways (eg: puns, jokes, sarcasm, etc)
> * Difficulties in empathising with others
> * Problems with understanding another person's point of view
> * Hampered conversational ability
> * Problems with controlling feelings such as anger, depression
> and anxiety
> * Adherence to routines and schedules, and stress if expected routine
> is disrupted
> * Inability to manage appropriate social conduct
> * Delayed understanding of sexual codes of conduct
> * A narrow field of interests. For example a person with Asperger
> syndrome may focus on learning all there is to know about
> baseball statistics, politics or television shows.
> * Anger and aggression when things do not happen as they want
> * Sensitivity to criticism
> * Eccentricity
> * Behaviour varies from mildly unusual to quite aggressive
> and difficult

I play Rubensohl - 2suit bids are competitive and natural, 2N and
above are transfers [weak+ depending on 2level availability].
Transfers into opps suits are staymanic and stopper asking. Immediate
double is competitive takeout.

Kurt

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are these 5-3-3-2 hands with 13 HCP equal?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/631e6e527660c209?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 2:02 am
From: Martin Ambuhl

A followup of my own post of 11/27/2011 at 6:37 PM:
> On 11/27/2011 7:48 AM, Bertil wrote:
>
>> But I would like to ask why you made no mentioning of other LTC
>> counts, such as the New LTC from
>> an article in BW in 2003 by Koelman. It's based on counting half
>> losers for missing honors.
>> Specifically it counts 3 for the A, 2 for the K and 1 for the Q, for a
>> total of 6 halves or 3 losers.

Note that this is exactly the same as the balancing Aces and Queens that
Klinger so despises. The effect of counting the excess of Aces over
Queens and modifying the LTC by 1/2 for each excess (of deficient) Ace
over Queens yields (for non-losers)
A 1 1/2
K 1
Q 1/2

There is no reason at all why I should mention Koelman's repacking of
old goods. And it is a bad idea to modify the LTC in this way.
Controls and Loser Count are conceptually different. Count each, or
simply note that a hand with more Aces than (non-losing) Queens is
control-rich and with more (non-losing) Queens than Aces is
control-poor, if you must conflate the two categories.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 3:51 am
From: Bertil

On Nov 27, 6:33 pm, HoneyMonster <some...@someplace.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:53:22 -0800, Bertil wrote:
> > On Nov 27, 4:47 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Nov 27, 10:07 am, Charles Brenner <challambren...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Nov 27, 4:10 am, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > On Nov 26, 6:56 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
> >> > > > On Nov 26, 6:37 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > On Nov 26, 12:05 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > On Nov 25, 11:20 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > > On Nov 25, 3:53 pm, Martin Ambuhl <mamb...@earthlink.net>
> >> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > > > On 11/25/2011 10:20 AM, Bertil wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > > > > Counting LTC for opening hands does not agree with
> >> > > > > > > > > Klinger's book. He makes it very clear that LTC applies
> >> > > > > > > > > only after an 8-fit or better has been found.
> >> > > > > > > > > Who has advocated applying LTC on ordinary opening
> >> > > > > > > > > hands?
>
> >> > > > > > > > Klinger makes the claim that LTC should not be used for
> >> > > > > > > > opening the bidding except for opening bids specifically
> >> > > > > > > > playing strength.
>
> >> > > > > > > > Note that CAB players (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a
> >> > > > > > > > lot of events using LTC as the primary evaluation method
> >> > > > > > > > for opening the bidding.
> >> > > > > > > > Note that Roman player (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a
> >> > > > > > > > lot of events using LTC as a primary evaluation method
> >> > > > > > > > for opening the bidding.
>
> >> > > > > > > > His ignoring the Roman players is amazing. He claims,
> >> > > > > > > > for example, on p.11 that after Courtney & Walshe's 1935
> >> > > > > > > > book "It was given scant attention then ... and cam to
> >> > > > > > > > light again in 1961 through the endeavors of Maurice
> >> > > > > > > > Harrison-Gray...". Apparently Klinger is unaware of
> >> > > > > > > > Belladonna & Avarelli's successes in the period between
> >> > > > > > > > 1935 and 1961.
> >> > > > > > > > He claims (p.69) that "The concept of 'cover cards' was
> >> > > > > > > > devised by George Rosenkranz...". George Rosenkranz
> >> > > > > > > > knows better, and has frequently in writing acknowledged
> >> > > > > > > > that the Roman players provided the concept. They were
> >> > > > > > > > using 'cover cards' at least by the early 1950s.
> >> > > > > > > > Apparently Klinger hasn't even bothered to read
> >> > > > > > > > Rosenkranz.
>
> >> > > > > > > > If you want a real laugh, check section (5) of the
> >> > > > > > > > appendix. This has a riotous confusion of categories.
> >> > > > > > > > According to Klinger,
> >> > > > > > > > a) S:Axxxxx H:Kxxx D:xx C:x (7 HCP)
> >> > > > > > > > is a better 7 loser hand than b) S:AJxxxx H:KJxx D:QJ C:Q
> >> > > > > > > > (14 HCP)
> >> > > > > > > > This his arithmetic.
> >> > > > > > > > (1) (2) (3) (2)-(3) LTC
> >> > > > > > > > Controls Control HCP correction
> >> > > > > > > > net
> >> > > > > > > > points
> >> > > > > > > > Hand a 3 10 7 +3 -1/2 loser 6 1/2
> >> > > > > > > > LTC Hand b 3 10 14 -4 +1/2 loser 7
> >> > > > > > > > 1/2 LTC
>
> >> > > > > > > > Take Klinger and his _The Modern Losing Trick Count_ with
> >> > > > > > > > a grain of salt.
>
> >> > > > > > > This is one of the most interesting posts I'v seen in a
> >> > > > > > > long time.
> >> > > > > > > But it's also confusing. It seems to say that any hand
> >> > > > > > > with 7 or fewer LTC can be opened at the one level.
> >> > > > > > > Surely a 7-6-0-0 type hand with no HCP would not qualify.
> >> > > > > > > Nor do I think a hand like Axxxx-xx-x-Kxxxx would qualify
> >> > > > > > > even though it has only 7 LTC. So what other rules must
> >> > > > > > > one apply with 6-7 LTC?
> >> > > > > > > E.g would xx-AQxxx-Kxxx-x qualify and should one pass
> >> > > > > > > Qxx-KJxxx-KQx- QT ?
> >> > > > > > > Searching for LTC at Google did not help. All sites say LTC
> >> > > > > > > must be based on a good fit.
>
> >> > > > > > You really need to refine your search methods.
> >> > > > > > BridgeGuys.com talks about _opening_ based on LTC, and that
> >> > > > > > site pops up first in almost any search for bridge info.
>
> >> > > > > >http://www.bridgeguys.com/LGlossary/LosingTrickCount.html:
>
> >> > > > > > "A player, in deciding to open the auction, uses the Initial
> >> > > > > > Count. An opening bid is based on:
>
> >> > > > > > 1. not holding more than 7 losers.
> >> > > > > > 2. holding adequate high card values, including 2 defensive
> >> > > > > > tricks. 3. a sound rebid."
>
> >> > > > > > I like that "adequate high card values". That probably sums
> >> > > > > > up my opening hand evaluation pretty well.
>
> >> > > > > Not unexpectedly your website reference does not work.
>
> >> > > > Not surprisingly, you're an idiot. It works just fine, even
> >> > > > using it from YOUR post. And it says exactly what I quoted. Why
> >> > > > I even bother to try to help someone with such a closed mind is
> >> > > > beyond me. Bye.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > > Let me recap so everybody will understand why I respond as follows.
> >> > > I clicked on the website you posted but it was dead,
> >> > > I posed a specific problem but you were unable to make a rational
> >> > > answer.
> >> > > Instead you resorted, as you have done in the past, to a vile
> >> > > invective and signed off with Bye.
>
> >> > Do you have some kind of mental filter that helps you automatically
> >> > ignore helpful and pleasant posts such as that of Andrew B (not to
> >> > mention my own post helpfully explaining how you misunderstood Ira
> >> > Corn), while honing in on those who reply to you with rude drivel?
> >> > Yes Derek was wrong but you don't need to be helpless.
>
> >> > Charles- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> The 6th Edition of the ACBL Encyclopedia says that Ira Corn won Mixed
> >> Pairs 1963,
> >> Men's Team 1968 and Vanderbilt 1973. That in my mind shows expertise.
>
> >> Bertil- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > The other day I tried to e-mail my son but it was undelivered twice
> > because of typos.
>
> Unsurprising.
>
> > So why would I try to retype the website given, that is much more
> > complicated.
>
> Yes, pressing the backspace key once is hard work.
>
> > It's up to the poster to correct his typos.
> > I trusted the ACBL Editors with regard to Ira Corn. So why is there an
> > argument?
>
> There is no argument; merely laughter.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The laughteryou seem to hear is just the graying of asses.
I asked you to list your contributons to the world of bridge and
you've come up with nothing as expected,
because you are just a blowhard selfinflated windbag, incapabable of a
constructive contribution.
You're one of the asses. And birds of a feather flock together.

Bertil

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 11:59 am
From: KWSchneider

On Nov 24, 2:29 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Stig wrote...
>These three ordinary 5=3=3=2 hands with 13 HCP each don't seem to be
>of equal value.

Let me reformat [for fixed font, which is what we all should be using]
and correct the PP results so I can accept attribution.

T9xxx KQT9x T9xxx
QJx QJx QJx
AQx KQx KQJ
Ax xx KJ

QT 2.5 2 1.5
B-R 13 11.5 11.5
4C 12 12.9 10.5
Corrected results====================
PP[spades] 13 14 11
=Tricks 5.2 5.6 4.4

To your questions:

1) They each have 13 HCP. Hand 2 can take the most tricks [spades are
trump].
2) Hands 1 and 2 are 1S openings, Hand 3 is a notrump hand, 1N
opening [playing 12-14]
3) Simple PP evaluation is enough - a computer program is
unnecessary
4) Making the long suit clubs just changes the trump suit...

Kurt

==============================================================================
TOPIC: lebehnsol
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/c7af184ed8ec94e8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 5:31 am
From: Julie Guthrie

Both sides vul, IMPs. You sit West holding:

JT
A764
T82
A974

South deals and the bidding goes:

P P 2D! X
2H! ?

2D is explained as a weak major (no strong options). 2H is still pass
or correct.

You have agreed to play lebensohl over weak 2's.

What are your options and how do you rate them?

What would you have bid without the 2H bid?

For those who are interested partner held:

AK72
52
AKQ
KJT5

North had a weak 2 in hearts.

I opted for double and partner bid 4S, which could have made but
didn't.

thanks

Mark

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 5:43 am
From: "dake50@aol.com"

I play Double here as "I don't fit spades but stuff +-10"
Esp as 2S could cheaply be bid.
I expect 3NT would be our choice.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 6:11 am
From: Co Wiersma

Op 28-11-2011 14:31, Julie Guthrie schreef:
> Both sides vul, IMPs. You sit West holding:
>
> JT
> A764
> T82
> A974
>
> South deals and the bidding goes:
>
> P P 2D! X
> 2H! ?
>
> 2D is explained as a weak major (no strong options). 2H is still pass
> or correct.
>
> You have agreed to play lebensohl over weak 2's.
>
> What are your options and how do you rate them?
>
> What would you have bid without the 2H bid?
>
> For those who are interested partner held:
>
> AK72
> 52
> AKQ
> KJT5
>
> North had a weak 2 in hearts.
>
> I opted for double and partner bid 4S, which could have made but
> didn't.
>
> thanks
>
> Mark

Apparent one of you did see double as negative and the other as penalty
And I suppose that are both the options.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 6:30 am
From: Peter Ford

On Nov 28, 1:31 pm, Julie Guthrie <tubby.guth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Both sides vul, IMPs. You sit West holding:
>
> JT
> A764
> T82
> A974
>
> South deals and the bidding goes:
>
> P P 2D! X
> 2H! ?
>
> 2D is explained as a weak major (no strong options). 2H is still pass
> or correct.
>
> You have agreed to play lebensohl over weak 2's.
>
> What are your options and how do you rate them?
>
> What would you have bid without the 2H bid?
>
> For those who are interested partner held:
>
> AK72
> 52
> AKQ
> KJT5
>
> North had a weak 2 in hearts.
>
> I opted for double and partner bid 4S, which could have made but
> didn't.
>
> thanks
>
> Mark

What did partner's double show?
Peter

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Which strategy would be best?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/7af03253f0a3125c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 5:32 am
From: "dake50@aol.com"

Allow minor slam tries at 4-level with 4NT quits.
At least get the suggestion into this auction.
Pay the price if 9 tricks but not 10.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 9:03 am
From: Thomas Dehn

On 11/27/2011 03:59 PM, Co Wiersma wrote:
> Op 27-11-2011 13:48, boblipton schreef:
>> and that 1D seems to deny a major
>
> where you see that?

Opener's 2NT rebid with 4-4 in the majors.

Thomas

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Poll: What do you open?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/4e4c4d651e1cd8a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 6:12 am
From: EZ

On Nov 25, 10:00 am, jonathan23 <campb...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> --
> - Jon Campbell
> Ottawa Canada

This isn't a good hand for standard methods -- unless you're in a pro-
am partnership and put it on a NT track immediately -- so I'd guess
like everyone else, probably opening 2C and planning to rebid 2N
(which still might be an underbid) over 2!D, but 3!D over any other
(natural) response.

But I'm lucky with these hands, since 90 percent of sessions I play
with serious partners use either a big Club system or Kaplan-Sheinwold
methods. In the former, simply open 1C which should allow you to get
both your long suit and trick-taking potential into the auction at a
reasonable level.

With KS, I simply open 1D (and may play there missing a game once in a
blue moon) and rebid 3D, which is forcing in KS, a hand where I would
have seriously considered opening 2C and rebidding my suit if it were
a major.

My two cents

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 12:02 pm
From: KWSchneider

2C followed by 2N...
Diamonds are only the trump suit if partner has shortness and 3+
diamonds - unlikely in this scenario.

Kurt

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 12:07 pm
From: KWSchneider

On Nov 27, 1:29 pm, "Paul Hightower" <paulhigh@dont_email.net> wrote:
> "Michael Angelo Ravera" <marav...@prodigy.net> wrote in messagenews:25452765.357.1322262691598.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prmr38...
>
> On Friday, November 25, 2011 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, jonathan23 wrote:
> > Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> > majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> > in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> > Kx
> > AQx
> > AKQxxx
> > Kx
>
> > What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>
> Playing your system, It's too strong (by almost a king, I'd say) to open
> 2NT...
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I've seen good evdeince that a six-card suit at notrump is worth only a
> point or so, definetely not 3. A five card suit is worth a surprisingly
> small 0.4 points, according to a study of real-life results by the French
> Bridge Federation.
>
> Apparently, at notrump, stoppers are more critical than having a source of
> tricks, and trying to make game with inadequate high cards just leaves you
> short on stoppers most of the time. It's easy to construct obvious
> exceptions, and sometimes you can bid those such as after a weak two opening
> or a Gambling 3NT, but on balance it's best not to overbid notrump hands
> based on long suits. However, those who treat this as a balanced 21 are
> certainly underbidding IMO.
>
> Here I expect to have 8 tricks on any lead but an unlikely diamond; partner
> will raise my 2C-2x; 2NT sequence with an Ace or King, obviously, and game
> will be easy. He might pass an opening 2NT bid with only 3 or 4 points. Game
> may be a challenge opposite a random Q+J, but a lead from the Ace toward
> either of my Kings where partner has Qxx may be enough. All in all I think
> I'll make game much more often than not opposite 3 hcp, hence 2C opening. On
> the other hand I'll have little play if partner passes my 2NT rebid, so no
> reason to make a stronger rebid. One to one-and-half points for the diamond
> suit looks about right.

Logic dictates that "this" trump suit [AKQxxx] is worth much more than
a mere 6th card adjustment. The suit is expected to break 322 around
the table, hence this suit is 6 tricks [15 points - ie a 6 point
adjustment]. 1-1.5 points is an atrocious understatement of value.

Kurt

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is your bid against RHO 2H?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/09ec8f8bfcd2f010?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 7:47 am
From: KWSchneider

On Nov 25, 7:45 am, Sunrise <sunrise9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMP
> NV vs V
>
> You hold
>
> KQ10xxx
> KQ9x
> Ax
> Q
>
> RHO opens 2H weak
> What do you bid? What would be your second choice if any ?

2S - no second choice.

Kurt

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 9:21 am
From: Sid

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 07:47:09 -0800 (PST), KWSchneider
<questionofbalance@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Nov 25, 7:45 am, Sunrise <sunrise9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> IMP
>> NV vs V
>>
>> You hold
>>
>> KQ10xxx
>> KQ9x
>> Ax
>> Q
>>
>> RHO opens 2H weak
>> What do you bid? What would be your second choice if any ?
>
>2S - no second choice.

1. 3S - jump over preempt = GOOD.

2. 2S - second choice.

Sid

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 11:34 am
From: Adam Beneschan

On Nov 25, 4:45 am, Sunrise <sunrise9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMP
> NV vs V
>
> You hold
>
> KQ10xxx
> KQ9x
> Ax
> Q
>
> RHO opens 2H weak
> What do you bid? What would be your second choice if any ?

2S. Clear. Your heart honors aren't pulling their full weight.

-- Adam

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Should there be a penalty for blatant use of UI?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/3d30c6dc320cec67?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 9:59 am
From: "Lorne"

Should directors have the power to add a penalty (as well as resetting the
contract) when a player makes blatant use of UI?

Here is the hand that made me think about it, the player being an
international:

AK7543
AJ65
10
K5

Playing teams love all in 4th the bidding is:
2H 3C 3H 3S
P 4S P 4N
P 5D P 5H
P 5S P ?

5S took 30 seconds. Since you know an ace (5D=1 keycard) is missing 5H
clearly states you intend to be in slam only opposite the trump Q. The
pause suggest no Q but extra length and at the table 6S was bid but reversed
to 5S when the trumps broke 2-1.

You do have some penalty in that you keep your score when 6S fails so my
question is whether that is enough when the player is experienced and the UI
so obvious or should the director have the power to add (say) a 6 IMP
penalty or take some more drastic action?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 28 2011 11:07 am
From: Stu Goodgold

Directors do have the power to impose a procedural penalty if a player has made a clear violation of the laws of bridge, including those that deal with proprieties.
Typically a PP is 3 IMPs or 1/4 of a board.

-Stu Goodgold
San Jose, CA

==============================================================================

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rec.games.trivia - 21 new messages in 7 topics - digest

2011-11-28T00:25:00.001-08:00

rec.games.trivia
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia?hl=en

rec.games.trivia@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Toughest Puzzle/Riddles Solutions - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/58756e6d8b9e7261?hl=en
* QFTCI11 Final Round 6: Arts & Literature - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/f834d19694a0925a?hl=en
* Rotating Quiz #40 - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/151bc006ce398945?hl=en
* Calvin's Quiz #180 - ANSWERS & SCORES - REPOST - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/737f18455c546357?hl=en
* QFTCI11 Final Round 7: Geography - 7 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/c79040610deb944b?hl=en
* Calvin's Quiz #181 - repost - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/4d961ec9158d8598?hl=en
* Rare Entries contest MSB73 begins - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/d540ba92c863f9b1?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Toughest Puzzle/Riddles Solutions
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/58756e6d8b9e7261?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 26 2011 3:51 am
From: divya bisht

Toughest Puzzle/Riddles Solutions :

Toughest Puzzle of The Week Solution :
http://hardest-puzzle.blogspot.com/2011/11/toughest-picture-question.html

Toughest Riddle of The Week Solution
http://hardest-riddles.blogspot.com/2011/11/toughest-trick-teaser-question.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: QFTCI11 Final Round 6: Arts & Literature
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/f834d19694a0925a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 6:47 am
From: swp

On Thursday, November 24, 2011 8:09:38 PM UTC-5, Mark Brader wrote:
> * Final, Round 6 - Arts & Literature
>
> A. Russian Literature Recycled
>
> In all cases, give the titles in English.
>
> A1. Which verse novel by Pushkin is better known as an opera
> composed by Tchaikovsky? It has also been the basis
> of a ballet, performed by the National Ballet of Canada
> last year.

eugene onegin

> A2. Tchaikovsky found inspiration for another opera in the
> works of Pushkin, this one being based on a haunting
> tale of gambling madness. What is it?

the queen of spades

> A3. One of Stravinsky's early successes was a ballet score
> based on what magical figure from Russian folklore?

firebird

>
> B. Mystery Series with Title Themes
>
> B1. This series of hard boiled mysteries reached 21 novels
> before the author's death, each of them with a color
> in the title. The first was "The Deep Blue Good-By"
> and the last was "The Lonely Silver Rain". Name the
> author or the lead character, who describes himself as a
> "salvage consultant".

author was john macdonald

> B2. This mystery series -- set about 50 years in the future --
> includes 32 novels whose title is a single word followed
> by "in Death", as well as a few other works. The first
> was "Naked in Death" and the latest is "Treachery
> in Death". Name the author or either of the two lead
> characters: the cop or the billionaire.

author was j. d. robb

> B3. This author has two different series of mystery novels.
> Both take place in the present day. One series features
> an artificial intelligence, in other words a self-aware
> computer program, that solves crimes; there are 4 of
> these books. The other series is up to 12 books so far.
> These are humorous mysteries whose lead character is a
> female modern-day blacksmith, and all of the titles in
> this series have birds in them: the first was "Murder
> with Peacocks" and the latest is "Stork Raving Mad".
> Name the author or the lead character of either series.

author is donna andrews

>
> C. Nobel Prize Winners
>
> The Nobel Prize for Literature is awarded to writers who use
> many different languages. This triple, however, is about
> English-speaking winners. In each case, name the writer.
>
> C1. The most recent English-speaking winner of the prize
> was in 2007. She was born in Persia in 1919 and her
> books have included "The Grass Is Singing", "The Good
> Terrorist", and the "Canopus in Argos" series.

doris lessing

> C2. In 1976 the prize was won by a Canadian-born writer
> who lived 1915-2005. His works included "The Adventures
> of Augie March", "Humboldt's Gift", and "Seize the Day".

saul bellow

> C3. In 2005 the prize was won by a playwright who lived
> 1930-2008. He was born in England and his works
> included "The Birthday Party", "The Caretaker", and
> "The Homecoming".

harold pinter

>
> D. Literary Fakes
>
> D1. Which novel by Jerzy Kosinski depicted what he initially
> claimed was a literary recounting of his own childhood
> as a fugitive in Poland during the Nazi occupation?
> The book was the subject of a major controversy when it
> was published in Poland, 23 years after its American
> publication, and the Polish couple who had sheltered
> him during the war came forward to dispute his story.

the painted bird

> D2. "A Million Little Pieces" by James Frey was a selection
> of Oprah's book club until she discovered that the author
> had exaggerated or in some cases fabricated the details
> of this memoir. He and his publisher were unwise enough
> to appear again on her show to be publicly chastised
> for their deception. What was the focus of Frey's story?

alcohol/drug rehab

> D3. Whose fake autobiography, written by Clifford Irving
> rather than its subject, was published by McGraw-Hill
> in 1972?

howard hughes

>
> E. Gilbert & Sullivan Subtitles
>
> Most of the Gilbert and Sullivan plays had subtitles, or alternate
> titles if you prefer, beginning with the word "or". Here are
> three of these: in each case, name the main title.
>
> E1. "Or, The Slave of Duty".

pirates of penzance (I remember telling a joke about this title, sort of, some time ago...)

> E2. "Or, The Lass that Loved a Sailor".

hms pinafore

> E3. "Or, The Town of Titipu".

the mikado

swp

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:15 pm
From: Calvin <334152@gmail.com>

On Nov 25, 11:09 am, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
> * Final, Round 6 - Arts & Literature
>
> A. Russian Literature Recycled
>
> In all cases, give the titles in English.
>
> A1. Which verse novel by Pushkin is better known as an opera
> composed by Tchaikovsky? It has also been the basis
> of a ballet, performed by the National Ballet of Canada
> last year.

Swan Lake, The Nutcracker Suite

> A2. Tchaikovsky found inspiration for another opera in the
> works of Pushkin, this one being based on a haunting
> tale of gambling madness. What is it?
>
> A3. One of Stravinsky's early successes was a ballet score
> based on what magical figure from Russian folklore?

Rasputin?

> B. Mystery Series with Title Themes
>
> B1. This series of hardboiled mysteries reached 21 novels
> before the author's death, each of them with a color
> in the title. The first was "The Deep Blue Good-By"
> and the last was "The Lonely Silver Rain". Name the
> author or the lead character, who describes himself as a
> "salvage consultant".
>
> B2. This mystery series -- set about 50 years in the future --
> includes 32 novels whose title is a single word followed
> by "in Death", as well as a few other works. The first
> was "Naked in Death" and the latest is "Treachery
> in Death". Name the author or either of the two lead
> characters: the cop or the billionaire.
>
> B3. This author has two different series of mystery novels.
> Both take place in the present day. One series features
> an artificial intelligence, in other words a self-aware
> computer program, that solves crimes; there are 4 of
> these books. The other series is up to 12 books so far.
> These are humorous mysteries whose lead character is a
> female modern-day blacksmith, and all of the titles in
> this series have birds in them: the first was "Murder
> with Peacocks" and the latest is "Stork Raving Mad".
> Name the author or the lead character of either series.
>
> C. Nobel Prize Winners
>
> The Nobel Prize for Literature is awarded to writers who use
> many different languages. This triple, however, is about
> English-speaking winners. In each case, name the writer.
>
> C1. The most recent English-speaking winner of the prize
> was in 2007. She was born in Persia in 1919 and her
> books have included "The Grass Is Singing", "The Good
> Terrorist", and the "Canopus in Argos" series.
>
> C2. In 1976 the prize was won by a Canadian-born writer
> who lived 1915-2005. His works included "The Adventures
> of Augie March", "Humboldt's Gift", and "Seize the Day".
>
> C3. In 2005 the prize was won by a playwright who lived
> 1930-2008. He was born in England and his works
> included "The Birthday Party", "The Caretaker", and
> "The Homecoming".

Harold Pinter

> D. Literary Fakes
>
> D1. Which novel by Jerzy Kosinski depicted what he initially
> claimed was a literary recounting of his own childhood
> as a fugitive in Poland during the Nazi occupation?
> The book was the subject of a major controversy when it
> was published in Poland, 23 years after its American
> publication, and the Polish couple who had sheltered
> him during the war came forward to dispute his story.
>
> D2. "A Million Little Pieces" by James Frey was a selection
> of Oprah's book club until she discovered that the author
> had exaggerated or in some cases fabricated the details
> of this memoir. He and his publisher were unwise enough
> to appear again on her show to be publicly chastised
> for their deception. What was the focus of Frey's story?
>
> D3. Whose fake autobiography, written by Clifford Irving
> rather than its subject, was published by McGraw-Hill
> in 1972?
>
> E. Gilbert & Sullivan Subtitles
>
> Most of the Gilbert and Sullivan plays had subtitles, or alternate
> titles if you prefer, beginning with the word "or". Here are
> three of these: in each case, name the main title.
>
> E1. "Or, The Slave of Duty".

The Sorcerer, Iolanthe

> E2. "Or, The Lass that Loved a Sailor".

HMS Pinafore

> E3. "Or, The Town of Titipu".

The Mikado

cheers,
calvin

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 5:25 pm
From: msb@vex.net (Mark Brader)

Mark Brader:
> These questions were written to be asked in Toronto on 2011-04-04,
> and should be interpreted accordingly... For further information
> see my 2011-09-22 companion posting on "Questions from the
> Canadian Inquisition (QFTCI11, QFTCIMM)".

> I wrote 2 triples in this round.

Those were B and C.

> * Final, Round 6 - Arts & Literature

> A. Russian Literature Recycled

> In all cases, give the titles in English.

> A1. Which verse novel by Pushkin is better known as an opera
> composed by Tchaikovsky? It has also been the basis
> of a ballet, performed by the National Ballet of Canada
> last year.

"Eugene Onegin". 4 for Joshua and Stephen.

> A2. Tchaikovsky found inspiration for another opera in the
> works of Pushkin, this one being based on a haunting
> tale of gambling madness. What is it?

"The Queen of Spades". 4 for Stephen.

> A3. One of Stravinsky's early successes was a ballet score
> based on what magical figure from Russian folklore?

"The Firebird". 4 for Joshua and Stephen.

> B. Mystery Series with Title Themes

> B1. This series of hardboiled mysteries reached 21 novels
> before the author's death, each of them with a color
> in the title. The first was "The Deep Blue Good-By"
> and the last was "The Lonely Silver Rain". Name the
> author or the lead character, who describes himself as a
> "salvage consultant".

John D. MacDonald, Travis McGee. 4 for Joshua and Stephen.

J.D. Robb (a.k.a. Nora Roberts); Eve Dallas, Roarke. 4 for Stephen.

Donna Andrews; Turing Hopper, Meg Langslow. 4 for Stephen.

I put this question in because I wanted to give the Meg Langslow
series a plug. I've read the first 8 so far and I think they're
hilarious. There is now a 13th book in the series, "The Real Macaw".

> C. Nobel Prize Winners

> The Nobel Prize for Literature is awarded to writers who use
> many different languages. This triple, however, is about
> English-speaking winners. In each case, name the writer.

> C1. The most recent English-speaking winner of the prize
> was in 2007. She was born in Persia in 1919 and her
> books have included "The Grass Is Singing", "The Good
> Terrorist", and the "Canopus in Argos" series.

Doris Lessing. 4 for Joshua, Erland, and Stephen.

> C2. In 1976 the prize was won by a Canadian-born writer
> who lived 1915-2005. His works included "The Adventures
> of Augie March", "Humboldt's Gift", and "Seize the Day".

Saul Bellow. 4 for Joshua, Marc, and Stephen.

> C3. In 2005 the prize was won by a playwright who lived
> 1930-2008. He was born in England and his works
> included "The Birthday Party", "The Caretaker", and
> "The Homecoming".

Harold Pinter. 4 for everyone -- Joshua, Marc, Erland, Stephen,
and Calvin.

> D. Literary Fakes

> D1. Which novel by Jerzy Kosinski depicted what he initially
> claimed was a literary recounting of his own childhood
> as a fugitive in Poland during the Nazi occupation?
> The book was the subject of a major controversy when it
> was published in Poland, 23 years after its American
> publication, and the Polish couple who had sheltered
> him during the war came forward to dispute his story.

"The Painted Bird". 4 for Stephen.

His battle with drug/alcohol addiction. 4 for Joshua, Marc,
and Stephen.

> D3. Whose fake autobiography, written by Clifford Irving
> rather than its subject, was published by McGraw-Hill
> in 1972?

Howard Hughes. 4 for Joshua, Marc, and Stephen.

> E. Gilbert & Sullivan Subtitles

> Most of the Gilbert and Sullivan plays had subtitles, or alternate
> titles if you prefer, beginning with the word "or". Here are
> three of these: in each case, name the main title.

> E1. "Or, The Slave of Duty".

"The Pirates of Penzance". 4 for Stephen.

> E2. "Or, The Lass that Loved a Sailor".

"H.M.S. Pinafore". 4 for Stephen and Calvin. 2 for Joshua.

> E3. "Or, The Town of Titipu".

"The Mikado". 4 for Joshua, Marc, Stephen, and Calvin.

Scores, if there are no errors:

ROUNDS-> 2 3 4 6 TOTALS
TOPICS-> Sci His Spo Lit
Joshua Kreitzer 43 46 50 38 177
Marc Dashevsky 44 16 36 20 116
Dan Blum 51 33 30 -- 114
Dan Tilque 47 36 28 -- 111
Pete Gayde 28 28 43 -- 99
Peter Smyth 43 21 23 -- 87
Stan Brown 39 38 -- -- 77
Rob Parker 56 18 -- -- 74
Jeff Turner 42 -- 28 -- 70
Stephen Perry -- -- -- 60 60
Erland Sommarskog 27 20 4 8 59
"Calvin" 31 15 -- 12 58
Joachim Parsch 32 -- 8 -- 40

--
Mark Brader | "In my youth", said the sage, as he shook his grey locks,
Toronto | "I kept all my verbs very supple
msb@vex.net | By the use of these smileys -- one shilling a box --
| Allow me to sell you a couple?" --John Dean (after Carroll)

My text in this article is in the public domain.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rotating Quiz #40
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/151bc006ce398945?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:01 pm
From: Calvin <334152@gmail.com>

Sorry for the delay. I've been away for a few days and posted the
results before I left, but my posting issue seems to have recurred so
I'm back to Google Groups. The really annoying part is that it isn't
evident there is a problem until I realise that no-one is replying to
my posts.

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:38:07 +1000, Calvin <calvin@phlegm.com> wrote:

Part 1: What is the time?

Apologies to anyone who had trouble reading this, especially the
Cyrillic script. I should have made a PDF and uploaded that somewhere.

1 Wat is de tijd

Dutch
11/11

2 Какво е времето

Bulgarian
0/11

3 Co je to čas

Czech
2/11

4 Vad är på gång

Swedish (a loose translation apparently:-)
6/11

5 O que é o tempo

Portuguese
6/11

Part 2: Do you expect me to talk?

From the foreign language translation, supply the title of a James
Bond film.

6 L'homme avec le pistolet d'or

The Man with the Golden Gun
10/11

7 Orbis non sufficit

The World is Not Enough
8/11
Also the Bond family motto

8 Una vista a uccidere il

A View to a Kill
11/11
I thought this was the hardest one yet everyone got it

9 Der Spion der mich liebte

The Spy Who Loved Me
7/11

10 Digitus aurum

Goldfinger, of course
11/11

Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q5 Q6 Q7 Q8 Q9 Q10 TOTAL RQ 40
- - - - - - - - - - --- ----------
1 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 8 Dan Tilque
1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 8 Stan Brown
1 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 7 Chris Johnson
1 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 7 Marc Dashevsky
1 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 7 Mark Brader
1 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 7 Rob Parker
1 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 6 Erland S
1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 6 Joachim Parsch
1 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 6 Peter Smythe
1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 5 Jeffrey Turner
1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 5 Pete Gayde
- - - - - - - - - - --- ----------
11 0 2 6 6 10 8 11 7 11 72 65%

It was remiss of me now to have a tie-break question. Congratulations
Dan and Stan- whoever gets in first can set RQ41. Thanks for playing.

--
cheers,
calvin

cheers,
calvin

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 8:45 pm
From: Dan Tilque

Calvin wrote:

>
>
> It was remiss of me now to have a tie-break question. Congratulations
> Dan and Stan- whoever gets in first can set RQ41. Thanks for playing.

I just did Rotating Quiz #39, so Stan can have the privilege of doing
the next one. As far as I can tell, he's never done one, so it's time he
contributed.

--
Dan Tilque

"I can't believe this. Trapped in Ryoval's basement with a sex-starved
teenage werewolf. There was nothing about this in any of my Imperial
Academy training manuals..."
-- "Labyrinth", Lois McMaster Bujold

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Calvin's Quiz #180 - ANSWERS & SCORES - REPOST
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/737f18455c546357?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:55 pm
From: Calvin

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:58:20 +1000, Calvin <calvin@phlegm.com> wrote:

Can someone reply so I know this was posted successfully?

1 Which Australian-born Irishman is the only performer to have twice won
the Eurovision Song Contest?

Johnny Logan
3/10

2 Which country has owned Easter Island since 1888?

Chile
8/10

3 Who starred opposite Nicole Kidman in Moulin Rouge!?

Ewan McGregor
2/10

4 Rum, pineapple juice and coconut milk make up which cocktail?

Pina Colada
7/10

5 What was Elvis Presley's middle name?

Aron / Aaron
7/10

6 Mascarpone is a variety of which type of food?

Cheese
8/10

7 Daniel Johns was the lead singer of which Australian band?

Silverchair
0/10

8 Who played the title role in the 1974 movie Young Frankenstein?

Gene Wilder
7/10

9 What part of the body is affected by an aneurysm?

Blood vessel or similar
6/10

10 On average, who lives longer – married men or bachelors?

Married men!
7/10

Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q5 Q6 Q7 Q8 Q9 Q10 TOTAL Quiz 180
- - - - - - - - - - --- ----------
0 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 7 Bruce Bowler
1 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 7 Joachim Parsch
0 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 7 Russ
1 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 6 Erland S
1 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 6 Peter Smyth
0 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 5 Marc Dashevsky
0 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 5 Pete Gayde
0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 4 Dan Tilque
0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 4 David Brown
0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 4 Mark Brader
- - - - - - - - - - --- ----------
3 8 2 7 7 8 0 7 6 7 55 55%

--
cheers,
calvin

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 8:16 pm
From: swp

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 7:55:50 PM UTC-5, Calvin wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:58:20 +1000, Calvin <cal...@phlegm.com> wrote:
>
> Can someone reply so I know this was posted successfully?

'reply'

swp

==============================================================================
TOPIC: QFTCI11 Final Round 7: Geography
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/c79040610deb944b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 5:27 pm
From: msb@vex.net (Mark Brader)

These questions were written to be asked in Toronto on 2011-04-04,
and should be interpreted accordingly.

On each question you may give up to two answers, but if you give
both a right answer and a wrong answer, there is a small penalty.
Please post all your answers in a single followup to the newsgroup,
based only on your own knowledge. (In your answer posting, quote
the questions and place your answer below each one.) I will reveal
the correct answers in about 3 days. For further information see
my 2011-09-22 companion posting on "Questions from the Canadian
Inquisition (QFTCI11, QFTCIMM)".

I wrote 4 triples in this round.

* Final, Round 7 - Geography

A. Country Subdivisions

A1. In the US they have states, in Canada provinces. What is
the term for one of the corresponding units in Germany?
Answer in German.

A2. What is the name for one of the units that Switzerland is
divided into? More or less the same word is used in
English, French, and German.

A3. Russia is divided into several kinds of units, but we
want the term for the most numerous kind -- there are
more than 40 of them. For example, the Kaliningrad
exclave is one of these. The Russian word for them is
also used in English: what is it?

B. Airports

In each case we're asking for the major city served by the airport.
For example, Toronto, not Mississauga.

B1. What city is served by Toussaint Louverture International
Airport?

B2. What city is served by Jomo Kenyatta International
Airport?

B3. What city is served by an airport named for Frédéric
Chopin?

C. Trains

C1. You would find the Canadian Pacific in Canada. In what
country would you find the Indian Pacific?

C2. TGV ("tay-zhay-vay") stands for the French words "Train
à Grande Vitesse", and you would mostly find these
trains in France. The ICE ("I-C-E") is a similarly
fast train whose initials stand for the English words
"Inter-City Express". In what country would you mostly
find ICE trains?

C3. In what country would you find the Shinkansen?

D. Seas

D1. Just south of Istanbul, forming part of the water
boundary between the European and Asiatic parts of Turkey,
is what sea about the size of Connecticut or Lebanon?

D2. What large sea is a part of the Indian Ocean lying west
of India and is about the same size as India?

D3. This triangular sea forms a bay on the north side of the
Black Sea. It is bounded on the west and south by
Ukraine, including the Crimean Peninsula, and on the east
by Russia, with the city of Rostov-on-Don at its head.
It's about the size of Switzerland, or somewhat larger
than Maryland. Name it.

E. US Mountains

For each question we will name a range or area of mountains that
is located entirely in one US state, or nearly so, and you must
name that state.

E1. The Catskills.
E2. The Poconos.
E3. The Green Mountains.

--
Mark Brader, Toronto "As always, breakfast recapitulated
msb@vex.net phylogeny." -- Spider Robinson

My text in this article is in the public domain.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 5:44 pm
From: Joshua Kreitzer

On Nov 27, 7:27 pm, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
> * Final, Round 7 - Geography
>
> A. Country Subdivisions
>
> A1. In the US they have states, in Canada provinces. What is
> the term for one of the corresponding units in Germany?
> Answer in German.

Land

> A2. What is the name for one of the units that Switzerland is
> divided into? More or less the same word is used in
> English, French, and German.

canton

> A3. Russia is divided into several kinds of units, but we
> want the term for the most numerous kind -- there are
> more than 40 of them. For example, the Kaliningrad
> exclave is one of these. The Russian word for them is
> also used in English: what is it?

oblast

> B. Airports
>
> In each case we're asking for the major city served by the airport.
> For example, Toronto, not Mississauga.
>
> B1. What city is served by Toussaint Louverture International
> Airport?

Port-au-Prince

> B2. What city is served by Jomo Kenyatta International
> Airport?

Nairobi

> B3. What city is served by an airport named for Frédéric
> Chopin?

Warsaw

> C. Trains
>
> C1. You would find the Canadian Pacific in Canada. In what
> country would you find the Indian Pacific?

India
(I'm not under any illusions that this is the correct answer, but I
don't have any better answer)

> C3. In what country would you find the Shinkansen?

Japan

> D. Seas
>
> D1. Just south of Istanbul, forming part of the water
> boundary between the European and Asiatic parts of Turkey,
> is what sea about the size of Connecticut or Lebanon?

Sea of Marmara

> D2. What large sea is a part of the Indian Ocean lying west
> of India and is about the same size as India?

Arabian Sea

> E. US Mountains
>
> For each question we will name a range or area of mountains that
> is located entirely in one US state, or nearly so, and you must
> name that state.
>
> E1. The Catskills.

New York

> E2. The Poconos.

Pennsylvania

> E3. The Green Mountains.

Vermont

--
Joshua Kreitzer
gromit82@hotmail.com

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 7:46 pm
From: Calvin

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:27:30 +1000, Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> wrote:

> * Final, Round 7 - Geography
>
> A. Country Subdivisions
>
> A1. In the US they have states, in Canada provinces. What is
> the term for one of the corresponding units in Germany?
> Answer in German.

Paletinate or something like that

> A2. What is the name for one of the units that Switzerland is
> divided into? More or less the same word is used in
> English, French, and German.

Cantons

Gulag :-)

>
> B. Airports
>
> In each case we're asking for the major city served by the airport.
> For example, Toronto, not Mississauga.
>
> B1. What city is served by Toussaint Louverture International
> Airport?

Marseilles, Lyon

> B2. What city is served by Jomo Kenyatta International
> Airport?

Nairobi, Mombassa

> B3. What city is served by an airport named for Frédéric
> Chopin?

Warsaw, Krakow

> C. Trains
>
> C1. You would find the Canadian Pacific in Canada. In what
> country would you find the Indian Pacific?

Australia

> C2. TGV ("tay-zhay-vay") stands for the French words "Train
> à Grande Vitesse", and you would mostly find these
> trains in France. The ICE ("I-C-E") is a similarly
> fast train whose initials stand for the English words
> "Inter-City Express". In what country would you mostly
> find ICE trains?

China, Germany

> C3. In what country would you find the Shinkansen?

Thailand, S Korea

>
> D. Seas
>
> D1. Just south of Istanbul, forming part of the water
> boundary between the European and Asiatic parts of Turkey,
> is what sea about the size of Connecticut or Lebanon?

Marmara

> D2. What large sea is a part of the Indian Ocean lying west
> of India and is about the same size as India?

Arabian

> D3. This triangular sea forms a bay on the north side of the
> Black Sea. It is bounded on the west and south by
> Ukraine, including the Crimean Peninsula, and on the east
> by Russia, with the city of Rostov-on-Don at its head.
> It's about the size of Switzerland, or somewhat larger
> than Maryland. Name it.

Azov

> E. US Mountains
>
> For each question we will name a range or area of mountains that
> is located entirely in one US state, or nearly so, and you must
> name that state.
>
> E1. The Catskills.

Virginia, West Virginia

> E2. The Poconos.

Missouri, Iowa

> E3. The Green Mountains.

Vermont?

--
cheers,
calvin

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 8:19 pm
From: msb@vex.net (Mark Brader)

Joshua Kreitzer:
> (I'm not under any illusions that this is the correct answer, but...)

Giggle!
--
Mark Brader | "No, I'm disagreeing with you. That doesn't mean I'm not
msb@vex.net | listening to you or understanding what you're saying:
Toronto | I'm doing all three at the same time." -- Aaron Sorkin

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 8:40 pm
From: swp

On Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:27:30 PM UTC-5, Mark Brader wrote:
> * Final, Round 7 - Geography
>
> A. Country Subdivisions
>
> A1. In the US they have states, in Canada provinces. What is
> the term for one of the corresponding units in Germany?
> Answer in German.

lander (where's the umlaut on this new computer?) or bundesland

> A2. What is the name for one of the units that Switzerland is
> divided into? More or less the same word is used in
> English, French, and German.

cantons

federal subjects ; or did you want just 'oblasts' (provinces)? (krais, okrugs, etc. are also types of federal subject for example)

port au prince

> B2. What city is served by Jomo Kenyatta International
> Airport?

nairobi

> B3. What city is served by an airport named for Frédéric
> Chopin?

warsaw

>
> C. Trains
>
> C1. You would find the Canadian Pacific in Canada. In what
> country would you find the Indian Pacific?

australia

germany

> C3. In what country would you find the Shinkansen?

japan

>
> D. Seas
>
> D1. Just south of Istanbul, forming part of the water
> boundary between the European and Asiatic parts of Turkey,
> is what sea about the size of Connecticut or Lebanon?

marmara denizi

> D2. What large sea is a part of the Indian Ocean lying west
> of India and is about the same size as India?

arabian sea

sea of azov

>
> E. US Mountains
>
> For each question we will name a range or area of mountains that
> is located entirely in one US state, or nearly so, and you must
> name that state.
>
> E1. The Catskills.

new york

> E2. The Poconos.

pennsylvania

> E3. The Green Mountains.

vermont

swp

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 9:09 pm
From: Dan Tilque

Mark Brader wrote:
>
>
> * Final, Round 7 - Geography
>
> A. Country Subdivisions
>
> A1. In the US they have states, in Canada provinces. What is
> the term for one of the corresponding units in Germany?
> Answer in German.

Land

>
> A2. What is the name for one of the units that Switzerland is
> divided into? More or less the same word is used in
> English, French, and German.

canton

>
> A3. Russia is divided into several kinds of units, but we
> want the term for the most numerous kind -- there are
> more than 40 of them. For example, the Kaliningrad
> exclave is one of these. The Russian word for them is
> also used in English: what is it?

oblast

>
>
> B. Airports
>
> In each case we're asking for the major city served by the airport.
> For example, Toronto, not Mississauga.
>
> B1. What city is served by Toussaint Louverture International
> Airport?

Marseilles

>
> B2. What city is served by Jomo Kenyatta International
> Airport?

Nairobi

>
> B3. What city is served by an airport named for Frédéric
> Chopin?

Hamburg

>
>
> C. Trains
>
> C1. You would find the Canadian Pacific in Canada. In what
> country would you find the Indian Pacific?

Malaysia

>
> C2. TGV ("tay-zhay-vay") stands for the French words "Train
> à Grande Vitesse", and you would mostly find these
> trains in France. The ICE ("I-C-E") is a similarly
> fast train whose initials stand for the English words
> "Inter-City Express". In what country would you mostly
> find ICE trains?

>
> C3. In what country would you find the Shinkansen?

Japan

>
>
> D. Seas
>
> D1. Just south of Istanbul, forming part of the water
> boundary between the European and Asiatic parts of Turkey,
> is what sea about the size of Connecticut or Lebanon?

Sea of Marmara

>
> D2. What large sea is a part of the Indian Ocean lying west
> of India and is about the same size as India?

Arabian Sea

>
> D3. This triangular sea forms a bay on the north side of the
> Black Sea. It is bounded on the west and south by
> Ukraine, including the Crimean Peninsula, and on the east
> by Russia, with the city of Rostov-on-Don at its head.
> It's about the size of Switzerland, or somewhat larger
> than Maryland. Name it.

Sea of Azov

>
>
> E. US Mountains
>
> For each question we will name a range or area of mountains that
> is located entirely in one US state, or nearly so, and you must
> name that state.
>
> E1. The Catskills.

New York

> E2. The Poconos.

Pennsylvania

> E3. The Green Mountains.

Vermont

--
Dan Tilque

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:08 pm
From: Marc Dashevsky

In article <gMednQfeGI8ffk_TnZ2dnUVZ_h2dnZ2d@vex.net>, msb@vex.net says...
> * Final, Round 7 - Geography
>
> A. Country Subdivisions
>
> A1. In the US they have states, in Canada provinces. What is
> the term for one of the corresponding units in Germany?
> Answer in German.
>
> A2. What is the name for one of the units that Switzerland is
> divided into? More or less the same word is used in
> English, French, and German.
canton

> B3. What city is served by an airport named for Frédéric
> Chopin?
Warsaw

> C. Trains
>
> C1. You would find the Canadian Pacific in Canada. In what
> country would you find the Indian Pacific?
>
> C2. TGV ("tay-zhay-vay") stands for the French words "Train
> à Grande Vitesse", and you would mostly find these
> trains in France. The ICE ("I-C-E") is a similarly
> fast train whose initials stand for the English words
> "Inter-City Express". In what country would you mostly
> find ICE trains?
>
> C3. In what country would you find the Shinkansen?
Japan

> D. Seas
>
> D1. Just south of Istanbul, forming part of the water
> boundary between the European and Asiatic parts of Turkey,
> is what sea about the size of Connecticut or Lebanon?
>
> D2. What large sea is a part of the Indian Ocean lying west
> of India and is about the same size as India?
Arabian Sea

> E. US Mountains
>
> For each question we will name a range or area of mountains that
> is located entirely in one US state, or nearly so, and you must
> name that state.
>
> E1. The Catskills.
New York

> E2. The Poconos.
Pennsylvania

> E3. The Green Mountains.
Vermont, hence the name of the state

--
Go to http://MarcDashevsky.com to send me e-mail.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Calvin's Quiz #181 - repost
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/4d961ec9158d8598?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 9:37 pm
From: Calvin

On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:15:39 +1000, Calvin <calvin@phlegm.com> wrote:

>
> 1 Jeff Lynne and Roy Wood founded which British rock band in 1970?
> 2 Which American pioneered the use of opinion polls in the 1930s?
> 3 Who is currently King of Spain?
> 4 Which sport is played professionally by the Los Angeles Kings?
> 5 Does the herb fennel taste similar to aniseed, cinnamon or mint?
> 6 Which was the first city to host the modern Summer Olympic games twice?
> 7 What country has its map on its flag?
> 8 Which Italian directed the 1960 film La Dolce Vita?
> 9 Which American rocker had a 1972 hit with School's Out?
> 10 In which city did Jim Morrison die?
>

--
cheers,
calvin

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:07 pm
From: John Masters

On 2011-11-28 05:37:18 +0000, Calvin said:

> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:15:39 +1000, Calvin <calvin@phlegm.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> 1 Jeff Lynne and Roy Wood founded which British rock band in 1970?

ELO

>> 2 Which American pioneered the use of opinion polls in the 1930s?
>> 3 Who is currently King of Spain?

Juan Carlos

>> 4 Which sport is played professionally by the Los Angeles Kings?

Basketball

>> 5 Does the herb fennel taste similar to aniseed, cinnamon or mint?

Aniseed

>> 6 Which was the first city to host the modern Summer Olympic games twice?

Berlin

>> 7 What country has its map on its flag?
>> 8 Which Italian directed the 1960 film La Dolce Vita?

Fellini

>> 9 Which American rocker had a 1972 hit with School's Out?

Alice Cooper

>> 10 In which city did Jim Morrison die?

Paris

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:19 pm
From: Marc Dashevsky

In article <op.v5m5wgwsyr33d7@04233-26jz62s.staff.ad.bond.edu.au>, calvin@phlegm.com says...
> 1 Jeff Lynne and Roy Wood founded which British rock band in 1970?
ELO

> 2 Which American pioneered the use of opinion polls in the 1930s?
Gallop

> 3 Who is currently King of Spain?
El Rey España

> 4 Which sport is played professionally by the Los Angeles Kings?
hockey

> 5 Does the herb fennel taste similar to aniseed, cinnamon or mint?
aniseed

> 6 Which was the first city to host the modern Summer Olympic games twice?
Los Angeles

> 7 What country has its map on its flag?
I once knew this

> 8 Which Italian directed the 1960 film La Dolce Vita?
Fellini

> 9 Which American rocker had a 1972 hit with School's Out?
Alice Cooper

> 10 In which city did Jim Morrison die?
Paris

--
Go to http://MarcDashevsky.com to send me e-mail.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:46 pm
From: msb@vex.net (Mark Brader)

"Calvin":
> > 1 Jeff Lynne and Roy Wood founded which British rock band in 1970?
> > 2 Which American pioneered the use of opinion polls in the 1930s?

Gallup.

> > 3 Who is currently King of Spain?

Juan Carlos?

> > 4 Which sport is played professionally by the Los Angeles Kings?

Hockey. Which means ice hockey.

> > 5 Does the herb fennel taste similar to aniseed, cinnamon or mint?

Aniseed?

> > 6 Which was the first city to host the modern Summer Olympic games twice?

Paris, I think.

> > 7 What country has its map on its flag?

Cyprus.

> > 8 Which Italian directed the 1960 film La Dolce Vita?

Fellini.

> > 9 Which American rocker had a 1972 hit with School's Out?
> > 10 In which city did Jim Morrison die?

Geez, *three* music questions? I'll guess Los Angeles for this one.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "A good programmer is someone who looks both ways
msb@vex.net | before crossing a one-way street." -- Doug Linder

My text in this article is in the public domain.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 11:01 pm
From: Dan Tilque

Calvin wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:15:39 +1000, Calvin <calvin@phlegm.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> 1 Jeff Lynne and Roy Wood founded which British rock band in 1970?
>> 2 Which American pioneered the use of opinion polls in the 1930s?

George Gallup

>> 3 Who is currently King of Spain?

Juan Carlos

>> 4 Which sport is played professionally by the Los Angeles Kings?

hockey

>> 5 Does the herb fennel taste similar to aniseed, cinnamon or mint?

mint

>> 6 Which was the first city to host the modern Summer Olympic games
>> twice?

Los Angeles

>> 7 What country has its map on its flag?

Cyprus

>> 8 Which Italian directed the 1960 film La Dolce Vita?

Fellini

>> 9 Which American rocker had a 1972 hit with School's Out?
>> 10 In which city did Jim Morrison die?

Seattle

--
Dan Tilque

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rare Entries contest MSB73 begins
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trivia/t/d540ba92c863f9b1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:43 pm
From: msb@vex.net (Mark Brader)

This is another Rare Entries contest in the MSB series. Once again
I'll note that this series will only continue as long as the level
of participation is sufficient, so you are asked to please consider
entering even if you don't think you have good answers for all the
questions.

As always, reply ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any
newsgroup. Entries must reach here by Saturday, December 17, 2011
(by Toronto time, zone -5). See below the questions for a detailed
explanation, which is unchanged from last time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

0. Name a person who is now (see rule 4.4) alive and has been
Prime Minister of Canada.

1. Name a person or organization that has won more than one
Nobel Prize, either outright or shared.

2. Name a prime number that has been used as a contest number
in the MSB series of Rare Entries contests.

3. Name a title of a work of fiction, that is also a direct
(and apparently deliberate) quotation from a previously
existing work of fiction. For purposes of this question,
holy books of religions do not count as works of fiction.

4. Name a country (see rule 4.1.1) then existing, whose
government at some time since 1888 ordered or allowed the
killing of at least 25,000 of its own civilian residents
as part of a deliberate program of genocide, political
suppression, or the like.

5. Give the Italian name of a city in Italy that has a
different name (not a nickname) in English. It is all right
if the Italian name is used in English as well. For example,
if I had said "French name" and "in Belgium", you might
answer with "Bruxelles", whose name in English is Brussels.

6. Name a state or province (see rule 4.1.1) now existing, whose
name has the superficial meaning that it is the "new" version
of another, more populous place now existing. For example,
if I had asked about cities instead of states or provinces,
"New London" (Connecticut, USA) would be a correct answer.

7. A passenger elevator in good working order will sometimes
arrive at a floor, stop, and leave again in the same
direction, with the doors opening and closing but with
no one getting on or off. Give a reason (not a method)
why a person might cause this to happen. Reasons that are
sufficiently similar will be treated as identical.

8. In general terms (see rule 2.2), name a means for a regular
traffic of people and/or vehicles to cross between two
specific points on opposite sides of a river. (Answers like
"road", that do not relate to how the river is crossed,
are not acceptable. Answers like "swimming", that could
allow a crossing between any points, are not acceptable.)

9. In many sports the players move about on surfaces divided
into sections by a standard pattern of straight or curved
lines. Name such a sport where (in typical games at the
highest level of play) these standard lines are not all
marked in the same color. Note: Lines marking the outer
boundary of the playing area, or provided incidentally
for purposes unrelated to the sport, do not count.
Sports involving vehicles do not count.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1. The Game

As usual, for each of the questions above, your objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be duplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to use any reference material
you like to RESEARCH your answers; but when you have found enough
possible answers for your liking, you are expected to choose on your
own which one to submit, WITHOUT mechanical or computer assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.

* 2. Scoring

The scores on the different questions are MULTIPLIED to produce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.

If your answer on a category is correct, then your score is the number
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider equivalent.

A wrong answer, or a skipped question, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the number of entrants
- the square root of that number, rounded up to an integer
- double the highest score that anyone would have on this
question if all answers were deemed correct

* 2.1 Scoring Example

Say I ask for a color on the current Canadian flag. There are
26 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blue", and 1 each say "gules",
"white", and "blue square". After looking up gules I decide it's
the same color as red and should be treated as a duplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gules" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.

"Blue square" is not a color and blue is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- number of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rounded up = 6
- double the highest score = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.

* 2.2 More Specific Variants

On some questions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will usually be scored as if
the two answers are different, but the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.

In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gules as
a more specific variant of red, then "red" would still score 21,
but "gules" would now score 1.

If a wrong answer is clearly associated with a specific right
answer, I will score the right answer as if the wrong answer was a
more specific variant of it. In the above example, if there were
3 additional entrants who said "white square", then "white square"
would be scored as wrong, but the score for "white" would be 4, not 1.

"More specific" scoring will NOT apply if the question asks for an
answer "in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be
treated the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.

* 3. Entries

Entries must be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
quote the questions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.,
and no Unicode, please. (Entrants who fail to comply will be publicly
chastised in the results posting.)

Your message should preferably consist of just your 10 answers,
numbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations required. Your
name should be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signature is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit request
for a particular form of your name to be used, then your email address
will be posted in the results).

You can expect an acknowledgement when I read your entry. If this
bounces, it won't be sent again.

* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed

In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English usage, or other such matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an unfinished state, so long as it's clear enough
what you intended. Sometimes a specific question may imply stricter
rules, though. And if you give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one you intended, I will normally take
it as written.

Once you intentionally submit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
unless I decide there was a problem with the question. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that you intentionally submit counts.

* 3.2 Clarifications

Questions are not intended to be hard to understand, but I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity could only be
provided by an example which would suggest one or another specific
answer, and I mustn't do that.)

In order to be fair to all entrants, I must insist that requests for
clarification must be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgroup.
But if you do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
question is clear enough as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a question, all entrants will be informed.

* 3.3 Supporting Information

It is your option whether or not to provide supporting information
to justify your answers. If you don't, I'll email you to ask for
it if I need to. If you supply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it should be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to supply URLs for obvious, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in supplying URLs for pages that
don't actually support your answer.

If you provide any explanatory remarks along with your answers, you
are responsible for making it sufficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particular format doesn't matter as long
as you're clear. In the scoring example above, "white square" was
wrong; "white (in the central square)" would have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.

* 4. Interpretation of questions

These are general rules that apply unless a question specifically
states otherwise.

* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Countries

"Country" means an independent country. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent country is determined by how it is listed
in reference sources.

For purposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a country, (2) a
dependency, or (3) without national government. Their boundaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a country's legislature is considered a part of that country rather
than a dependency of it.

The European Union is considered as an association of countries, not
a country itself.

Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't count.
Places currently fighting a war of secession don't count. Embassies
don't count as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, but
they're still part of the host country (and city).

Countries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same country if they have the same capital city.

* 4.1.2 States or provinces

Many countries or dependencies are divided into subsidiary political
entities, typically with their own subsidiary governments. At the
first level of division, these entities are most commonly called
states or provinces, but various other names are used; sometimes
varying even within the same country (e.g. to indicate unequal
political status).

Any reference to "states or provinces" in a question refers to
these entities at the first level of division, no matter what they
are called.

* 4.1.3 Distances

Distances between places on the Earth are measured along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).

* 4.2 Entertainment

A "movie" does not include any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it must have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" includes dramatizations of true stories.

* 4.3 Words and Numbers
* 4.3.1 Different Answers

Some questions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as equivalent.

Similarly, if the question specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.

* 4.3.2 Permitted Words

The word that you give must be listed (or implied by a listing,
as with inflected forms) in a suitable dictionary. Generally
this means a printed dictionary published recently enough
to show reasonably current usage, or its online equivalent.
Other reasonably authoritative sources may be accepted on a
case-by-case basis. Words listed as obsolete or archaic usage
don't count, and sources that would list those words without
distinguishing them are not acceptable as dictionaries.

* 4.3.3 Permitted Numbers

Where the distinction is important, "number" refers to a specific
mathematical value, whereas "numeral" means a way of writing it.
Thus "4", "IV", and "four" are three different numerals representing
the same number. "Digit" means one of the characters "0", "1", "2",
etc. (These definitions represent one of several conflicting common
usages.)

* 4.3.4 "Contained in"

If a question asks for a word or numeral "contained" or "included"
in a phrase, title, or the like, this does not include substrings or
alternate meanings of words, unless explictly specified. For example,
if "Canada in 1967" is the title of a book, it contains the numeral
1967 and the preposition "in"; but it does not contain the word "an",
the adjective "in", or the numeral 96.

* 4.4 Tense and Time

When a question is worded in the present tense, the correctness of
your answer is determined by the facts at the moment you submit it.
(In a case where, in my judgement, people might reasonably be unaware
of the facts having changed, an out-of-date answer may be accepted as
correct.) Questions worded in the present perfect tense include the
present unless something states or implies otherwise. (For example,
Canada is a country that "has existed", as well as one that "exists".)
Different verbs in a sentence bear their usual tense relationship to
each other.

You are not allowed to change the facts yourself in order to make an
answer correct. For example, if a question asks for material on the
WWW, what you cite must already have existed before the contest was
first posted.

* 5. Judging

As moderator, I will be the sole judge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gules)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.

I will do my best to be fair on all such issues, but sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rulings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).

I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a serious error and
it affects the high finishers.

* 6. Results

Results will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm unexpectedly busy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evaluating one or more
answers, I may make a consultative posting in the newsgroups before
scoring the contest.

In the results posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
but high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' full
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each question.

* 7. Fun

This contest is for fun. Please do have fun, and good luck to all.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "If any form of pleasure is exhibited, report
msb@vex.net | to me and it will be prohibited." --DUCK SOUP

My text in this article is in the public domain.

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim - 13 new messages in 5 topics - digest

2011-11-28T00:23:00.000-08:00

alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim?hl=en

alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* OMGWTF!!! X-Plane 10 demo is out! - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/19a7aa441597aadd?hl=en
* c130J - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/982ba6610fbe7086?hl=en
* new computer - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/566fe59fccab0139?hl=en
* Harpy Crash!! (and other crashes) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/eb9e03e6a46f5cdf?hl=en
* What's the deal with SID's and STAR's? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/ef6fb5c974c454e9?hl=en

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 3:29 pm
From: BillW50

On 11/27/2011 2:25 PM, NM5K wrote:
> If everyone liked the same planes or flying experience,
> the world would probably get boring..
> Some people are not near as hard core about realism as I am,
> and that's no problem at all if they are enjoying what they do.
> I might try the Moth, but generally planes that go that slow
> don't get out of my hanger too often, unless I want to terrify
> the driving public buzzing highways, etc.. :)
> I like to do that when under the clinical supervision of a doktor.
> :|

I used to fly Cessnas back in the 70's, but nothing else. My dad flew RC
airplanes since the 50's and got me into them around the late 90's. RCs
is a bit tricky since you are not flying from the pilot seat. More like
from the tower view.

Now there are flight simulators and RC simulators. And I believe RC
simulators have the edge on flight simulators. I think because they
basically cost far more and there are more RC pilots than I hate to say
the phrase, real pilots. So I think this is why RC simulators have the
edge because of more money per copy and they sell more copies.

Now that is out of the way. And if you like fast, oh boy does RC
simulators have fast. Real RC has fast too, but that is another story.
Things can happen so fast that your eyes can barely keep up with it all.
Worse, you have to control what your eyes can barely keep up with. And
3D RC helos are just the worst! As you can fly them in any direction
almost instantly that it would make a lot of reports of UFOs sound lame.

Do I enjoy both RC simulators and flight simulators (even both in real
life). But when you switch from one to the other, the flight simulator
seems like your flying a snail. ;-)

I forgot what flight simulator also had RC flying, I think it was
X-Plane. Yeah that is kind of like the other RC simulators, but not
really that close at all (meaning it isn't that good at all). You can
fake MSFS a bit by speeding it up about 10 times faster than real time
to be kind of like RC flying. Although I found the elevation control to
be really off. As it is too fast compared to RC flying. But everything
else is kind of close (not anywhere near perfect, but you can sort of
get a feel for it).

As far as RC simulators goes, RealFlight is at or near the top of the
heap. Although not cheap either, every version has been priced at about
200 bucks each. I have RealFlight G2 through G5. Each one requires to
use a RealFlight controller (it has to be plugged in for copy
protection, but you don't have to use it). Knowing which version of
controller works with what version is pretty simple. Each its own except
for G5. As it will work with either the G3 or G4 controllers (G5
controller is the same as G4 actually).

Anyway if you want more speed, RC is the way to go. RealFlight at least
does have a cockpit view (instrument panel is like nil if anything). But
if you can't master like flying by tower view, at least you have that. ;-)

Using both, you know what one of my favorite view is? It is chase plane
view. This is in both RC and flight simulators. I guess it is like a
mixture of both. Plus the scenery is great. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v3.0
Centrino Core2 Duo 2GHz - 1.5GB - Windows 7

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 8:47 pm
From: NM5K

On 11/27/2011 5:29 PM, BillW50 wrote:

>
> Now there are flight simulators and RC simulators. And I believe RC
> simulators have the edge on flight simulators. I think because they
> basically cost far more and there are more RC pilots than I hate to say
> the phrase, real pilots. So I think this is why RC simulators have the
> edge because of more money per copy and they sell more copies.

Two totally different animals the way I look at it.
The flight simulator is simulating a real life airplane
and flight. The RC sim is simulating flying an RC plane.
For my usual type of sim flight, an RC sim would be fairly
useless.
I would think RC sims cost more money because they sell
less copies, not more. I would think the regular flight
sims, MSFS in particular, sell a lot more copies than the
RC sims, which are pretty much only used by RC pilots.
But I never looked into the sales or price aspect..

>
> Now that is out of the way. And if you like fast, oh boy does RC
> simulators have fast. Real RC has fast too, but that is another story.
> Things can happen so fast that your eyes can barely keep up with it all.
> Worse, you have to control what your eyes can barely keep up with. And
> 3D RC helos are just the worst! As you can fly them in any direction
> almost instantly that it would make a lot of reports of UFOs sound lame.
>
> Do I enjoy both RC simulators and flight simulators (even both in real
> life). But when you switch from one to the other, the flight simulator
> seems like your flying a snail. ;-)

Yep, but that is due to the scale of things.. If the RC plane
instantly converted to real life, the plane would be doing
many times the speed of what the real world plane does.
But when I think of speed in the sim, it's usually equated with
how long it will take to get somewhere. IE: if I flew the Moth
from Houston to Dallas, it would take me about four light years.. :/
I'd be tempted to strap the stick in place and take a nap
every once in a while.. Where as in the 737, about 50 minutes or so..

>
> I forgot what flight simulator also had RC flying, I think it was
> X-Plane. Yeah that is kind of like the other RC simulators, but not
> really that close at all (meaning it isn't that good at all). You can
> fake MSFS a bit by speeding it up about 10 times faster than real time
> to be kind of like RC flying. Although I found the elevation control to
> be really off. As it is too fast compared to RC flying. But everything
> else is kind of close (not anywhere near perfect, but you can sort of
> get a feel for it).

I do it with MSFS quite often. If you see me flying an F/A 18 from
a tower view in a video, I'm flying it RC style.
Sometimes I will use spot views in landing videos, but those are almost
always replays.

>
> Anyway if you want more speed, RC is the way to go. RealFlight at least
> does have a cockpit view (instrument panel is like nil if anything). But
> if you can't master like flying by tower view, at least you have that. ;-)

If I want speed in the sim, I go to one of the jet fighters..
Still not quite as fast scalewise as RC, but you still move
along pretty good.
>
> Using both, you know what one of my favorite view is? It is chase plane
> view. This is in both RC and flight simulators. I guess it is like a
> mixture of both. Plus the scenery is great. ;-)

I have no problems flying from the tower view myself.

Reversing directions and controls doesn't seem to bother me
much. I think mainly because in my minds eye, I'm always
sitting in the cockpit and fly more by instinct than
actually thinking about what to do. I guess anyway..
But I've never had any trouble doing it.
I've considered getting into RC planes several times, but
never seem to get around to it.
A few friends of mine do it, usually here..
http://www.bomberfieldusa.com/index01.htm

But in the sim, I prefer the cockpit. The only time I'll
fly from an outside view is if I'm making a video or whatever
and want that view in the video. I never do it when flying
"normally" so to speak.

This is one old video I made quite a while back where I
played some in the Extra using RC view for much of the flight.
I was doing some pseudo aerobatics, and it's looks a little more
lively from a tower view, with the smoke going, etc. :)
Not one of my greatest landings.. Floaty little thang...
But I finally managed to plop it on down. :/
That video was from back when I was still running a P4..
Not quite as fluid as my newer videos.
http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/35/zx0.mp4/

If I flew RC, it would be mainly aerobatics that I would
be interested in. I've seen some larger RC planes that
looked quite realistic doing aerobatics when seen from a bit
of a distance.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 11:10 pm
From: Copter_Six

On 11/25/2011 6:14 PM, NM5K wrote:
> On 11/25/2011 5:43 PM, DonK wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:25:14 -0500, "Danny"<drmckee@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. Mine states joystick will quit operating in 10 minutes since
>>> disk was
>>> not found in the drive.
>>> Danny
>

Can someone tell me what "unparalleled realism" means exactly. To get
the super correct modelling and dynamics a person needs to buy the
$600.00 version of X-Plane. What has the $50.00 version of X-Plane got
that is more realistic than FSX?

Copter Six
*Psychopath: A Journey Through the Madness*
=================================================
>Hopefully, you haven't ignited another flame war.

Que sera, sera...

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 3:39 pm
From: EddieLo

Grab a barf bag, crank the sound and hold on!

Full screen too.

http://vimeo.com/32377125

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 3:58 pm
From: "Danny"

Pretty cool video. Love that C130.

"EddieLo" wrote in message
news:9ei5d7hksuf4rgmic925gmrdgpr06tedhk@4ax.com...

Grab a barf bag, crank the sound and hold on!

Full screen too.

http://vimeo.com/32377125

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 5:42 pm
From: Gregory

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:39:03 -0800, EddieLo <hawaii-50@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
>
>Grab a barf bag, crank the sound and hold on!
>
>Full screen too.
>
>http://vimeo.com/32377125

Hot... dog!!!

-G

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 9:24 pm
From: Copter_Six

On 11/27/2011 5:58 PM, Danny wrote:
> Pretty cool video. Love that C130.
>
>
>
> "EddieLo" wrote in message
> news:9ei5d7hksuf4rgmic925gmrdgpr06tedhk@4ax.com...
>
>
> Grab a barf bag, crank the sound and hold on!
>
> Full screen too.
>
>
>
> http://vimeo.com/32377125

Famous last words - "I think I'll make it".

==============================================================================
TOPIC: new computer
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/566fe59fccab0139?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 3:40 pm
From: Tom Duhamel

> On 11/27/2011 12:46 PM, Nancy Beagle wrote:
>> AMD A8-3850 Quad 2.9 ghz coupled with ATI Radeon HD-6550 graphics card
>> and 8g 1333mhz ram. If I can get 18fps I will be happy.

I just want to make you realize the HD 6550 is not a dedicated graphics
card, but like I said in the previous post, it's an integrated chipset
(which in the case of the Fusion, is integrated directly on the same die
as the processor itself.

BUT....

On 2011-11-27 15:12, NM5K wrote:
> But this is just guessing as I've never seen or run
> one. I'm running a Phenom II at 3.5 ghz with just the onboard
> ATI-HD 4200 and it runs FSX pretty well.

Given that information as a comparison, I would guess your chip will
give you a reasonable experience, and within your expectations. I will
be very happy to hear of your experience once you get into it.

If you, or anyone else, wants to look for more information, the Fusion
family of chips is currently being marketed as FX, which are lower-end,
cheaper chips specifically marketed for casual/medium level games. The
Fusion family have been made using at least two different CPUs, and as I
understand the current versions are built with a quad-core Athlon 64
(which is not the current high-end processor, but the previous family.

Tom :)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:07 pm
From: Copter_Six

On 11/27/2011 2:12 PM, MikeW wrote:
> Tom Duhamel wrote:
>> On 2011-11-27 11:54, Nancy Beagle wrote:
>>> Hey gang what kind of frame rates can I expect using an AMD 3850
>>> quad, 8g ram, and a ATI hd 6550 card?
>>
>>
>> Hi Nancy,

And you just gotta wonder .... why?

Copter Six
*Psychopath: A Journey Through the Madness*
=================================================
>Hopefully, you haven't ignited another flame war.

Que sera, sera...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Harpy Crash!! (and other crashes)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/eb9e03e6a46f5cdf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 5:41 pm
From: Gregory

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:29:40 +1000, WayPoint
<spam.with.eggs@thanks.luv> wrote:

>On 27/11/2011 1:32 PM, Gregory wrote:
>>
>> Now for the damage.. Initial Recovery (canopy still lost)
>> http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/Harpy_1501.jpg
>>
>> Damage Assessment #1. Here's the nose laid out where it once was attached.
>> You can see very bad stress fractures of the aft fuse plane where the engine
>> mass is centered. Apparently when she hit, the motor wanted to "keep moving"
>> and rotate upward. That force broke the fuse plane where it connects to the
>> wing roots. Also a severe stress fracture aft of the canopy at the wing root.
>> http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/Harpy_1510.jpg
>>
>> -G

Thanks for the great reply!! The OP report wasn't edited well and had
a duplicate image. Let's go over the FOUR crashed individually.

Crash #1

This incident involved the yellow and black balsa [what looked like
an] Extra model. Was actually taking pics of it immdeiately before
it crashed but didn't actually see it happen.. too busy tracking thru
the viewfinder. Here it is on final. The power lines are MUCH farther
away than they appear.
http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/IMG_1470.jpg

Here it is being carried off the field. No retracts today?
http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/IMG_1475.jpg

The lad in blue jacket was getting himself involved in everything that
was going on, but not being a nuisance about it. I think he might have
been vaccine damaged. :))

Crash #2

The second crash was the Harpy Cat. See edited report and pics above.

Crash #3

Number three was a flying wing with twin vertical stabs on either
side of the pusher prop. It came over the field very fast, low and
descending. It went into a slow right roll and struck the ground with
the wing tip and pieces broke off. It bounced back into the air and
appeared to level off, then rolled over very quickly to the right and
crash HARD. It was severely damaged. No photos are available.

Crash #4

This crash is the one I messed up in the OP. Here is a photo of the
plane before it took off. Getting close to nightfall, the operator did
a couple low level loop while flying it almost directly over his head.
I'd not do loops unless standing away some distance.
http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/Splash_1545.jpg

That model sounded great and flew like real. It was sickening to see
it loop over and crash almost straight down. WHACK.. and parts flew
out in a circle around the impact site.

-G

p.s. have some new photo processing tricks, for example a two-pass
sharpening filter, the second pass using radius=3 pix and clip=5 pix.
The little PowerShot camera DOES have its limitations. A monopod
really helps with telephotos in keeping the image steady.

>Aaaah ... the joys of flying. :-)
>
>I never got into RC models but did manage a bit of control line flying
>in younger years. Standing in one spot and going round n round n round
>invariably resulted in me and/or the plane hitting the deck. Just pick
>up the pieces of balsa wood, glue them back together and go flying the
>following weekend. It was good fun though.
>
>There is a local model club here but I haven't been out to the field for
>many years now. Last I heard some had got in RC helicopters - that I'd
>like to see.
>
>I recall mixing the fuel in equal parts of ether, kerosene and castor oil.
>Because of the ether, my mum said my bedroom used to smell like the
>old school operating theaters. lol I doubt that I could buy 500ml of ether
>from the local chemist like we could when we were kids back in the '60s.
>
>All good stuff, Greg - thanks. :-)
>
>Graham

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 9:59 pm
From: Copter_Six

On 11/25/2011 4:14 PM, Danny wrote:
> SIDS AND STARS are essentially a standardized plan for departing or
> arriving at the larger airports. Similar to the lines that form at theme
> parks such as Disney World, Six Flags etc. It lets the pilots and ATC
> have some organization to departing/arriving flights, rather than just
> take off and fly in any direction and across any other planes intended
> path that you want.
>
>
>
>

I'm no expert .... I flew mainly NOE.

Copter Six
*Psychopath: A Journey Through the Madness*
=================================================
>Hopefully, you haven't ignited another flame war.

Que sera, sera...

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:32 pm
From: Dallas

Copter_Six <c6@texas.com> wrote:

> I'm no expert .... I flew mainly NOE.

Ok... I'll bite... What's NOE?

--
Dallas

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 11:40 pm
From: "John Ward"

Nap of the earth?

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comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical - 4 new messages in 2 topics - digest

2011-11-28T00:21:00.001-08:00

comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical?hl=en

comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Strawman incorporated - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/t/144839acbecdf82a?hl=en
* Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/t/f11dd8c7859f19e9?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Strawman incorporated
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/t/144839acbecdf82a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 26 2011 2:50 pm
From: Arjuna

On Nov 27, 4:25 am, Graham Thurlwell <nos...@jades.org> wrote:

> Any possibility of a expansion pack covering the Winter and
> Continuation Wars? I'd love to buy one.

Graham,

What operations/battles are you refering to?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 11:32 pm
From: "eddysterckx@hotmail.com"

On 26 nov, 16:24, dougb <douglasbrun...@rogers.com> wrote:

> Playing the heck of Trial of Strength and really all his titles, pc or
> board game, ooze quality. I remember playing Fire Brigadea ton on my
> old ST (least I think it was my Atari LOL).

Not many people know that Arjuna has also made a non-wargame : Shangai
Trader - a wealing and dealing economic game - of which I am a proud
owner.

> Re: Columbia Games - yes I'd love to see pc versions of those as
> well. I don't think they ever did a pc version of East Front II and
> that is a pity. Julius Caesar is another block game of theirs that is
> a blast to play.

Their Rommel in the Desert game is simply the best historical
implementation of the Western Desert war bar none because even the
level of supply the Germans have is variable and covered by FoW

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 11:34 pm
From: "eddysterckx@hotmail.com"

On 26 nov, 23:53, Arjuna <d...@panthergames.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 8:02 pm, "eddyster...@hotmail.com"
>
> <eddyster...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Soon" as in "put it on the list of games for the 2011 WotY
> > election" ?
>
> Eddy,
>
> "That all depends, mate!"...You knew I would say this didn't you? ;)

<Eddy takes a 5 Euro bill from his wallet and puts it in his shirt
pocket - bet won > :)

> I've just come off a Defence contract so I will have some time to try
> and wrap these up in the next few weeks, but I don't know whether we
> can make a pre XMas release. The schedule at Matrix is jammed full.

One couldn't tell by going to their website. Insert my customary rant
here about creating buzz and anticipation.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/t/f11dd8c7859f19e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 9:02 pm
From: HermanH

The 80th NEW Harpoon scenario of the year!

Operation Urgent Shield

Hypothetical international coalition attack against Iran nuclear
military facilities.

Author: Joe Toto

Joe is the 32nd new author to release a Harpoon scenario. This is the
first PlayersDB scenario written specifically and exclusively for the
HUE version of the game.

Harpoon HUE users can get the Complete PlayersDB HUE Library at:
http://tinyurl.com/3yunw9l

"Harpoon for Dummies" channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/HarPlonked

The Harpoon 3 and ANW FAQ:
http://www.harplonkhq.com/Harpoon/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.htm

http://forums.gamesquad.com/

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/FilesOfScenShare/

http://www.HarPlonkHQ.com

HarPlonkHQ

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rec.games.bridge - 4 new messages in 3 topics - digest

2011-11-28T00:11:00.000-08:00

rec.games.bridge
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge?hl=en

rec.games.bridge@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* What is the right bid here? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/0ec90d6c38adc01d?hl=en
* Are these 5-3-3-2 hands with 13 HCP equal? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/631e6e527660c209?hl=en
* Do you pre-empt in 2nd seat? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/adade20a74f4979d?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is the right bid here?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/0ec90d6c38adc01d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:37 pm
From: Steve Willner

On 11/21/2011 1:08 PM, sofos wrote:
> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
> West North East South
> -- -- -- 1H
> P P 2D ??
>
> You hold (playing 2 over 1)
> J5 AKJ98654 A J3
> You decide to open 1H (would you have?).

If I were going to preempt, it would have to be 5H because bidding 4H
seems too little. I'm not keen on that, so I agree with the 1H opening.
As others have written, if you can open 4C to show a strong 4H bid,
this seems to be a fine hand for it.

> It goes P P and RHO bids 2D. What now?

As others have written, 4H is normal. Against some opponents, it's
worth considering 2H. Your aim should be to buy the contract in hearts,
and jumping now will intimidate some opponents but goad others. There's
no substitute for knowing your customers.

One thing I'd like to know is how limited East's 2D bid is. Most play
it up to a max of 12 HCP or so, and if that's the case, West must have
points and be well-stacked in hearts not to have bid over 1H. Others
play that 2D can be a fairly strong hand, in which case West doesn't
have to have hearts.

> If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?

I wouldn't expect to, though partner might have just enough defensive
junk to do it. One advantage of the 2H sequence is that we won't be in
a forcing pass situation, though I think the majority of pairs these
days wouldn't play forcing passes even after a 4H bid. Years ago, I
think forcing passes after a voluntary game bid at these colors would
have been common.

--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swillner@nhcc.net
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 8:50 pm
From: Charles Brenner

On Nov 27, 1:47 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 10:07 am, Charles Brenner <challambren...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 27, 4:10 am, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 26, 6:56 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 26, 6:37 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Nov 26, 12:05 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Nov 25, 11:20 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Nov 25, 3:53 pm, Martin Ambuhl <mamb...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On 11/25/2011 10:20 AM, Bertil wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Counting LTC for opening hands does not agree with Klinger's book.
> > > > > > > > > He makes it very clear that LTC applies only after an 8-fit or better
> > > > > > > > > has been found.
> > > > > > > > > Who has advocated applying LTC on ordinary opening hands?
>
> > > > > > > > Klinger makes the claim that LTC should not be used for opening the
> > > > > > > > bidding except for opening bids specifically playing strength.
>
> > > > > > > > Note that CAB players (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> > > > > > > > using LTC as the primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
> > > > > > > > Note that Roman player (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> > > > > > > > using LTC as a primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
>
> > > > > > > > His ignoring the Roman players is amazing. He claims, for example, on
> > > > > > > > p.11 that after Courtney & Walshe's 1935 book "It was given scant
> > > > > > > > attention then ... and cam to light again in 1961 through the endeavors
> > > > > > > > of Maurice Harrison-Gray...". Apparently Klinger is unaware of
> > > > > > > > Belladonna & Avarelli's successes in the period between 1935 and 1961.
> > > > > > > > He claims (p.69) that "The concept of 'cover cards' was devised by
> > > > > > > > George Rosenkranz...". George Rosenkranz knows better, and has
> > > > > > > > frequently in writing acknowledged that the Roman players provided the
> > > > > > > > concept. They were using 'cover cards' at least by the early 1950s.
> > > > > > > > Apparently Klinger hasn't even bothered to read Rosenkranz.
>
> > > > > > > > If you want a real laugh, check section (5) of the appendix. This has a
> > > > > > > > riotous confusion of categories. According to Klinger,
> > > > > > > > a) S:Axxxxx H:Kxxx D:xx C:x (7 HCP)
> > > > > > > > is a better 7 loser hand than
> > > > > > > > b) S:AJxxxx H:KJxx D:QJ C:Q (14 HCP)
> > > > > > > > This his arithmetic.
> > > > > > > > (1) (2) (3) (2)-(3) LTC
> > > > > > > > Controls Control HCP correction net
> > > > > > > > points
> > > > > > > > Hand a 3 10 7 +3 -1/2 loser 6 1/2 LTC
> > > > > > > > Hand b 3 10 14 -4 +1/2 loser 7 1/2 LTC
>
> > > > > > > > Take Klinger and his _The Modern Losing Trick Count_ with a grain of salt.
>
> > > > > > > This is one of the most interesting posts I'v seen in a long time.
> > > > > > > But it's also confusing. It seems to say that any hand with 7 or
> > > > > > > fewer LTC can be opened at the one level.
> > > > > > > Surely a 7-6-0-0 type hand with no HCP would not qualify. Nor do I
> > > > > > > think a hand like Axxxx-xx-x-Kxxxx
> > > > > > > would qualify even though it has only 7 LTC. So what other rules must
> > > > > > > one apply with 6-7 LTC?
> > > > > > > E.g would xx-AQxxx-Kxxx-x qualify and should one pass Qxx-KJxxx-KQx-
> > > > > > > QT ?
> > > > > > > Searching for LTC at Google did not help. All sites say LTC must be
> > > > > > > based on a good fit.
>
> > > > > > You really need to refine your search methods. BridgeGuys.com talks
> > > > > > about _opening_ based on LTC, and that site pops up first in almost
> > > > > > any search for bridge info.
>
> > > > > >http://www.bridgeguys.com/LGlossary/LosingTrickCount.html:
>
> > > > > > "A player, in deciding to open the auction, uses the Initial Count. An
> > > > > > opening bid is based on:
>
> > > > > > 1. not holding more than 7 losers.
> > > > > > 2. holding adequate high card values, including 2 defensive tricks.
> > > > > > 3. a sound rebid."
>
> > > > > > I like that "adequate high card values". That probably sums up my
> > > > > > opening hand evaluation pretty well.
>
> > > > > Not unexpectedly your website reference does not work.
>
> > > > Not surprisingly, you're an idiot. It works just fine, even using it
> > > > from YOUR post. And it says exactly what I quoted. Why I even bother
> > > > to try to help someone with such a closed mind is beyond me. Bye.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Let me recap so everybody will understand why I respond as follows.
> > > I clicked on the website you posted but it was dead,
> > > I posed a specific problem but you were unable to make a rational
> > > answer.
> > > Instead you resorted, as you have done in the past, to a vile
> > > invective and signed off with Bye.
>
> > Do you have some kind of mental filter that helps you automatically
> > ignore helpful and pleasant posts such as that of Andrew B (not to
> > mention my own post helpfully explaining how you misunderstood Ira
> > Corn), while honing in on those who reply to you with rude drivel? Yes
> > Derek was wrong but you don't need to be helpless.
>
> > Charles

> The 6th Edition of the ACBL Encyclopedia says that Ira Corn won Mixed
> Pairs 1963,
> Men's Team 1968 and Vanderbilt 1973. That in my mind shows expertise.

You have no idea what I wrote about Ira Corn. I'm not among those who
put him down. Again, your filter for hearing only drivel seems to be
on - rather than reading what I wrote you apparently decided to
substitute what you remember someone writing, and consequently your
comment is a total non sequitur. Interesting.

Charles

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 9:02 pm
From: Player

On Nov 25, 7:50 pm, Sunrise <sunrise9...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMP
> NV vs NV
>
> You hold
>
> 9xxx
> x
> AK76xxx (7)
> x
>
> RHO passes
> What do you bid in your system?
> Do you consider the 4S a deterrent for preempting?
> What are your requirements in 2nd seat?
>
> Thank you for your ideas

This is an obvious 3D bid for me.
Ron

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 9:04 pm
From: Player

On Nov 25, 8:33 pm, "dak...@aol.com" <dak...@aol.com> wrote:
> 2-seat I'm really afraid LHO has a monster:
> 18+ and opponents will find game. NOT.!
> Let partner have his description.

I don't understand this post at all. Can anyone translate for me
please?
Ron

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rec.games.chess.misc - 14 new messages in 4 topics - digest

2011-11-28T00:02:00.001-08:00

rec.games.chess.misc
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc?hl=en

rec.games.chess.misc@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Strongest player of all time? Capablanca--the computer says so - 7 messages,
6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/t/defdbd7f559537b5?hl=en
* Tal Memorial 2011 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/t/259f25e83fdd2720?hl=en
* Chinese Sweep All Titles in World Championship of Chinese Chess - 4 messages,
3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/t/4aa932128172ec3f?hl=en
* 127 Photos from the World Championship on Chinese Chess in Jakarta Indonesia
- 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/t/73005edf1c97def1?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Strongest player of all time? Capablanca--the computer says so
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/t/defdbd7f559537b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 26 2011 10:51 pm
From: The Master

On Nov 26, 11:29 pm, Taylor Kingston <ttk5...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > And I've read one biographer who
> > > attributes Nietzsche's most transcendental philosophical concepts
> > > (e.g. eternal recurrence) to the effects of syphilis on his brain.
>
> > I seriously doubt that BGE was written that late in Nietzsche's
> > career.
>
> Feel free, Greg, to favor us with an erudite exposition detailing
> the chronology and progress of Nietzsche's health problems, comparing
> them with the publication date of his books. For a start, you must of
> course know that he is generally considered to have contracted
> syphilis around 1866-1871, while his main books were written
> 1878-1888.
> "Beyond Good and Evil" appeared in 1886, less than three years
> before Nietzsche suffered a mental breakdown from which he never
> really recovered. So BGE was indeed written late in his career.

I'm afraid the onus is _on you_ to demonstrate the assertion given
above, not on me to refute it. Here I do not refer to demonstrating
that you 'read one biographer..' but rather to adduce substantive
evidence in support of the extraordinary idea that 'the effects of
syphilis on his brain' somehow generated transcendental concepts in
Nietzsche's writings. As one fellow put it, 'extraordinary claims
require extraordinary evidence.'

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 2:52 am
From: Offramp

Chessmetrics score, April 1851.
Kieseritzky 2658
Williams 2507
Löwenthal 2488
Anderssen 2484
Mayet 2468
Horwitz 2439
Bird 2377.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:45 am
From: Jürgen R.

"Taylor Kingston" <ttk5079@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:571049a9-1a75-466a-a21f-62bcb0fe7469@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 19, 11:04 am, The Master <colossalblun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 19, 12:39 pm, micky <mi...@adamsky.blu.net.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Nov 16, 11:12 pm, raylopez99 <raylope...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > No. The issue was whether a stronger chess engine would make any
>> > > > difference in rating the masters. It does not. I predicted this.
>>
>> > When & where did u do this trEEni??
>>
>> > Enquiring mnds - uknow......
>>
>> You misunderstand....
>>
>> Ray is not like the rest of us. He does not live 'forward' through
>> time, as we do. Instead, he transcends Time and thus,
>
> Also, like Nietszchean philosophy, he transcends good and evil. To
> Nietzsche, "good" and "evil" were not polar opposites, but together
> formed one end of a polar dichotomy, with his philosophy at the other
> end. See for example his work "Jenseits von Güte und Böse" (Beyond
> Good and Evil).

It never pays, since these days everybody can look up anything in seconds,
to want to appear more erudite than you are.
At least you are not getting the title of a book wrong when printing
pirated copies.

"Güte" does have a meaning in German, but it isn't the
opposite of "Böse".

Incidentally, a good online dictionary for several languages is
leo.org.

>
> But Ray has gone beyond even that. As Nietszche saw good/evil, so
> Ray contemptuously sees "true" and "false." In his view, the things he
> says are neither true nor false; rather they are the transcendant
> polar opposite of true/false.
>

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 9:29 am
From: Taylor Kingston

On Nov 27, 4:45 am, Jürgen R. <jurg...@arcor.de> wrote:
> "Taylor Kingston" <ttk5...@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:571049a9-1a75-466a-a21f-62bcb0fe7469@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 11:04 am, The Master <colossalblun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Nov 19, 12:39 pm, micky <mi...@adamsky.blu.net.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > On Nov 16, 11:12 pm, raylopez99 <raylope...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > No. The issue was whether a stronger chess engine would make any
> >> > > > difference in rating the masters. It does not. I predicted this.
>
> >> > When & where did u do this trEEni??
>
> >> > Enquiring mnds - uknow......
>
> >> You misunderstand....
>
> >> Ray is not like the rest of us. He does not live 'forward' through
> >> time, as we do. Instead, he transcends Time and thus,
>
> > Also, like Nietszchean philosophy, he transcends good and evil. To
> > Nietzsche, "good" and "evil" were not polar opposites, but together
> > formed one end of a polar dichotomy, with his philosophy at the other
> > end. See for example his work "Jenseits von Güte und Böse" (Beyond
> > Good and Evil).
>
> It never pays, since these days everybody can look up anything in seconds,
> to want to appear more erudite than you are.
> At least you are not getting the title of a book wrong when printing
> pirated copies.
>
> "Güte" does have a meaning in German, but it isn't the
> opposite of "Böse".

Ah, yes, it should read "Jenseits von Gut und Böse." I should have
checked the title page rather than rely entirely on memory. Danke.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 9:39 am
From: Taylor Kingston

On Nov 26, 10:51 pm, The Master <colossalblun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 11:29 pm, Taylor Kingston <ttk5...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > And I've read one biographer who
> > > > attributes Nietzsche's most transcendental philosophical concepts
> > > > (e.g. eternal recurrence) to the effects of syphilis on his brain.
>
> > > I seriously doubt that BGE was written that late in Nietzsche's
> > > career.
>
> > Feel free, Greg, to favor us with an erudite exposition detailing
> > the chronology and progress of Nietzsche's health problems, comparing
> > them with the publication date of his books. For a start, you must of
> > course know that he is generally considered to have contracted
> > syphilis around 1866-1871, while his main books were written
> > 1878-1888.
> > "Beyond Good and Evil" appeared in 1886, less than three years
> > before Nietzsche suffered a mental breakdown from which he never
> > really recovered. So BGE was indeed written late in his career.
>
> I'm afraid the onus is _on you_ to demonstrate the assertion given
> above, not on me to refute it.

Ah yes, Greg, the onus is never on you to demonstrate anything, is
it?

> As one fellow put it, 'extraordinary claims
> require extraordinary evidence.'

But of course, claims by Greg Kennedy require no evidence at all.
Thus he says things like "I seriously doubt that BGE was written that
late in Nietzsche's career," when in fact it /was/ written quite late
in his career.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:21 am
From: ChessFire

>
> In that case Geller and Short should definitely rank above, say
> Tarrasch. I suspect that in a ten game match, each would win by at
> least 7-3. Pillsbury ahead of Euwe? Really?
>
> Botvinnik (paraphrased) on one of his games: "At this point I did not
> have to find the winning plan, as Rubenstein had already shown it in
> Rubenstein-X. All I had to do was apply Rubensten's plan."
>
> Tarrasch was a great player, but Short knows a lot about chess that
> Tarrasch didn't even suspect. A century of intensive research has
> discovered quite a lot.
>
> William Hyde

This is interesting in that I can report the opinion of a couple of
GMs, plus their own behaviors. But sure, Short even found significant
improvements in the Giuco Piano, and trounced many a top 50 player
with it. His equivalent player in the UK is Michael Adams who doesn't
trust computers, but like Short is also happy to find significant
improvements in opening play from the past 80 years. A Russian,
Khalifman is also a heavy opening theorist, similarly atavistic, and
finally Kasparov... laugh. My friend in Petersburg said that Kasparov
improved and maybe refuted the Chelyabinsk line in the Pelikan, but
always wanted to demonstrate it against Sveshnikov himself — after 7
years Kasparov gave up and played his h4 against someone else.

Not to forget Adorjan, who not only expanded black's repetoire but
also black's psychological preparations. The point here is that
Adorjan said that those players, mid-sixties through the seventies
took the hoary old openings to pieces, and were actually far more
creative over the board than later computer-informed players whose
brilliance was deep knowledge, rather than formidable and even protean
OTB creativity.

But all mentioned above would slaughter players of 2 generations
previous. I report here, from personal knowledge the opinions of these
players, which I hope does not falsely paraphrase their own points of
view.

Now, to quantify these speculations, if 2700 players would actually
score 7-3, does this equate to their opponents being 2550 players? I
think the margin would be greater, but let me not contend overmuch in
this one post. But if accepted, would by contemporary Elo a 2550
Tarrasch be 2550, wherefore a Morphy? 2350? I do not argue linear
extensions here across time, which besides cannot achieve any real
test other than by extensive chess engine measure of performance, but
at least we arrive at a means to properly retrograde Elo to those who
played before rating as we know them were introduced, and /
significantly/ we mentioned that a player achieving such and such a
result must achieve it in their own time and their score over their
fellow players therefore indicates their fellow's Elo too.

Cordially, Phil Innes

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 2:40 pm
From: William Hyde

On Nov 27, 1:21 pm, ChessFire <onech...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > In that case Geller and Short should definitely rank above, say
> > Tarrasch. I suspect that in a ten game match, each would win by at
> > least 7-3. Pillsbury ahead of Euwe? Really?
>
> > Botvinnik (paraphrased) on one of his games: "At this point I did not
> > have to find the winning plan, as Rubenstein had already shown it in
> > Rubenstein-X. All I had to do was apply Rubensten's plan."
>
> > Tarrasch was a great player, but Short knows a lot about chess that
> > Tarrasch didn't even suspect. A century of intensive research has
> > discovered quite a lot.
>
> > William Hyde
>
> This is interesting in that I can report the opinion of a couple of
> GMs, plus their own behaviors. But sure, Short even found significant
> improvements in the Giuco Piano, and trounced many a top 50 player
> with it. His equivalent player in the UK is Michael Adams who doesn't
> trust computers, but like Short is also happy to find significant
> improvements in opening play from the past 80 years.

I'm even prepared to ignore the advances in opening theory in this
comparison. The advance in middlegame knowledge itself gives modern
players a huge advantage against their equvalently-ranked
predecessors. Previous players had a horror of weak pawns, modern
players are aware of countless cases where an optically weak pawn is
not a problem, or is actually an advantage.

Though it's a matter of degree, not an absolute. Tarrasch was prepared
to accept weak pawns in return for a space advantage, or the bishop
pair, and Lasker was very modern in this matter.

When Rubenstein won some seemingly even rook endgame, the editor of a
chess publication joked that had he won those in previous centuries
he'd have been accused of witchcraft. But Rubenstein's example has
been followed and improved on in the past century. Tarrasch in the
modern era would find himself losing "drawn" endings to 2600 players.
Remember that Janowski was for some time one of the top ten players in
the world, with a fine tournament record, and he actually despised
the ending - an irony, as what would have been his best known game was
a fine endgame win against Capablanca - except that he lost it.
There's a huge body of endgame knowledge that simply did not exist in
1900 which is at the command of any modern GM.

The modern exchange sacrifice - I can't imagine any player of 1900
sacrificing the exchange as Petrosian did against Reshevsky at Zurich
in 1953 (well, maybe Lasker), and while Alekhine introduced the
"exchange sac for a passed pawn and a square" it has been seriously
elaborated. Watson's "secrets of modern chess strategy" is a book
full of other examples.

> Not to forget Adorjan, who not only expanded black's repetoire but
> also black's psychological preparations.

Yes, attitude and preparation count. Though the players of a century
ago were not as unhappy playing black as players of, say, the 1960s,
they tended to stop trying more often in difficult positions
(Nimzowitch and Lasker being major exceptions). Nunn mentions that
Anand had some of this attitude when he was younger - but not since he
reached the top ten.

> Now, to quantify these speculations, if 2700 players would actually
> score 7-3, does this equate to their opponents being 2550 players?

I have to confess that 7-3 was a gut feeling, not a quantitative
estimate, which I am not strong enough to make. If anyone is.

> think the margin would be greater, but let me not contend overmuch in
> this one post. But if accepted, would by contemporary Elo a 2550
> Tarrasch be 2550, wherefore a Morphy? 2350?

The problem with making estimates for Morphy is that we don't know
what he did not know as he was never really properly tested by his
opposition. Perhaps he could have won endgames with Rubenstein-like
precision, had he gotten into many near-even endgames. We know that
he was very good at endgames, but we can't put a resonable upper limit
to his skill there.

A lot was learned by the chess world between Morphy and Tarrasch. But
much of this was already known to Morphy, even if it took Steinitz to
articulate it. Steinitz may have cured the chess world of launching
unsound attacks and trusting to brilliance, but Morphy's attacks were
sound, as well as brilliant.

I do not argue linear
> extensions here across time, which besides cannot achieve any real
> test other than by extensive chess engine measure of performance, but
> at least we arrive at a means to properly retrograde Elo to those who
> played before rating as we know them were introduced, and /
> significantly/ we mentioned that a player achieving such and such a
> result must achieve it in their own time and their score over their
> fellow players therefore indicates their fellow's Elo too.

I can't imagine any way to really quantify any of this. But I think
we have to acknowledge that there is progress in chess.

Not to say that these players wouldn't learn rapidly when facing
modern players. Even Tarrasch played hypermodern openings once in a
while in the 1920s. Though I suspect that the Doctor's sense of
humour has been greatly underestimated.

William Hyde

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tal Memorial 2011
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/t/259f25e83fdd2720?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:28 am
From: Offramp

Chessmetrics score, April 1851.
Kieseritzky 2658
Williams 2507
Löwenthal 2488
Anderssen 2484
Mayet 2468
Horwitz 2439
Bird 2377.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Chinese Sweep All Titles in World Championship of Chinese Chess
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/t/4aa932128172ec3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 5:20 am
From: Jürgen R.

"samsloan" <samhsloan@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d08d8a76-4c49-412a-aa70-96b7a19beb3f@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> This had tragic consequences. It twice happened that the same Russian
> player, Leonid Stein, was not allowed to play in the World
> Championship Candidate's Tournament under this rule even though he had
> qualified. Many felt that he was the strongest player in the world.
> Then, when he was trying to qualify again and was on the way to the
> airport in Moscow to fly to Argentina for a third qualifying
> tournament, he died under mysterious circumstance. Some say he was
> murdered by the KGB, who had found out that he was planning to defect
> so that he would not be subject to the Not-Too-Many-Russians-Rule.
>
> Sam Sloan
>

The reason the KGB used to kill all the top Russian players was mainly
in order to level the playing field. They figured that Russian
chess could only profit from strong foreign competition. That's also
why they always sent free copies of "64" and "Шахматы в СССР" to
Fischer, Reshevsky, Larsen and others.

The reason so many Russian players defected to the West in the
1970's is that it was obviously much easier for a top GM to earn
a living in the U.S., say by selling insurance or washing dishes,
than in the impoverished Socialist Paradise.

Another trick they often used was to put chess players on the
wrong flight. Thus they told Stein that the interzonal was somewhere
in Argentina when it actually took place in Brazil. No wonder Stein
had a heart attack when he found out.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 5:36 am
From: Jürgen R.

"samsloan" <samhsloan@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d08d8a76-4c49-412a-aa70-96b7a19beb3f@t38g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Eric Johnson, a major chess organizer and former acting Executive
> Director of the United States Chess Federation, has a valid point.
>
> However, FIDE, the World Chess Federation, did have almost exactly
> that rule at one time.

> The rule was that no more than a certain number
> of players from the same country would be allowed to qualify to the
> candidates tournaments for the World Chess Championship. The rule was
> designed to prevent the World Chess Championship from being all-
> Russian.

Exactly this problem arose in the Candidates tournament in 1962
in Curacao. Not more than 5 of the 8 players were allowed
to be from Russia. Thats why FIDE invited Sam Sloan to fill one
of the vacant places.

However, Sloan knew that the KGB would ban anybody who accepted
the invitation from chess for 7 years; whereas, if he refused, he
would only be abducted, taken to a remote valley in Afghanistan
and forced to marry the ugliest girl in the village.

That's why Sloan allowed Bobby Fischer to take his place, and we all
know what happened next.

>
> Thus, if too many Russians qualified, the bottom ones were dropped and
> Western players with lower scores got in.
>
> This had tragic consequences. It twice happened that the same Russian
> player, Leonid Stein, was not allowed to play in the World
> Championship Candidate's Tournament under this rule even though he had
> qualified. Many felt that he was the strongest player in the world.
> Then, when he was trying to qualify again and was on the way to the
> airport in Moscow to fly to Argentina for a third qualifying
> tournament, he died under mysterious circumstance. Some say he was
> murdered by the KGB, who had found out that he was planning to defect
> so that he would not be subject to the Not-Too-Many-Russians-Rule.
>
> Sam Sloan
>
> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:05 AM, <chesspride@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> OK, I'll bite. What kind of legitimate sports groups limits
> participation by ethnicity? That's pretty sketchy.
>
> Can you imagine the world chess championship....limited to ethnic
> Russians....with Anand as "best-non-Russian"? Again, that's sketchy
> -- who would participate?
>
> Eric J.
>
> On Nov 26, 5:25 am, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In a surprising development, the Chinese have won all the titles in
>> the World Championship of Chinese chess.
>>
>> Who would have imagined that the Chinese would win everything in a
>> competition for Chinese chess?
>>
>> The competition was held in Jakarta Indonesia on November 20-26, 2011.
>> Each member nation was allowed to send two male players, one female
>> player and one non-Chinese.
>>
>> The players sent from China won all the prizes.
>>
>> The winner and new World Champion is 蒋川 JIANG Chuan of Beijing. He
>> easily swept all before him, winning his first seven games. I was
>> hoping he would pull a "Bobby Fischer" by winning all 9 games, but he
>> gave easy courtesy draws in the last two rounds. (Bobby Fischer
>> famously won the USA Championship with a score of 11-0 even though
>> there was no need for him to do so and then blanked his World
>> Championship competition with scores of 6-0, 6-0).
>>
>> Second was 许银川 XU YinChuan, also of China, who finished with 7.5 -
>> 1.5. He got one of the courtesy draws given by 蒋川 JIANG Chuan.
>>
>> Third was 武明一 VU Minh Ngat of Vietnam who scored 7-2. He had been
>> upset in the second round by losing to 吴宗翰 WOO Tsung Han from
>> Singapore but after that never lost again to finish third.
>>
>> The Woman's Championship was won by 唐　丹 TANG Dan of China who won all
>> her games to score 9-0
>>
>> Second in the Woman's section was 阮黄燕 NGUYEN Hoang Yen of Vietnam.
>> (Notice a trend here.)
>>
>> The title of "World Champion for non-Chinese" was won by 邝伟德 Kon
>> ISLAND of Hong Kong. There was some grumbling among the non-Chinese
>> competitors for giving his the title AGAIN because he really is
>> Chinese.
>>
>> Most beautiful girl in the Woman's competition and the only one who
>> would be regarded as "Chessbase Ready" was 杨丽可 Eunike Regina Feby of
>> Indonesia. Unfortunately, she lost all her games and scored 0-9. Also,
>> she spoke no English so I was unable to interview her.
>>
>> The moderator who gave out the prizes in the awards ceremony always
>> sounded like the most surprised person in the world when she kept
>> announcing "The Winner is From China". Great Job!
>>
>> Sam Sloan
>

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:37 am
From: Taylor Kingston

On Nov 26, 6:54 pm, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> However, FIDE, the World Chess Federation, did have almost exactly
> that rule at one time. The rule was that no more than a certain number
> of players from the same country would be allowed to qualify to the
> candidates tournaments for the World Chess Championship. The rule was
> designed to prevent the World Chess Championship from being all-
> Russian.

No, the rule was actually designed to limit the number of
challengers Botvinnik needed to prepare for. Botvinnik used his
political influence to extend his reign as World Champion beyond what
his playing strength alone could ensure. Thus he got first the rematch
rule, which allowed him to reclaim the title twice, then later the
rule limiting to three the number of candidates from any one country
who could qualify for the Candidates round from the Interzonal.
Since at that time no country besides the USSR had more than three
top-rank players, the rule effectively applied only to the USSR. And
because, until the rise of Fischer, it was a foregone conclusion that
the WCh challenger would be a Soviet player, the real effect (and
intent) of the rule was to limit the number of possible challengers
Botvinnik needed to prepare for.
Here's a chronological list of the number of Soviet players and how
they finished in the five FIDE Candidates Tournaments held 1950-1962,
after which they changed to elimination matches:

1950: 7 Soviet players out of 10 contestants, finishing =1st-2nd, 3rd,
4th, 6th, =8th-10th
1953: 9 out of 15; 1st, =2nd-4th, 5th, =6th-7th, =8th-9th, =10th-11th
1956: 6 out of 10; 1st, 2nd, =3rd-7th
1959: 4 out of 8; 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th
1962: 4 out of 8; 1st, =2nd-3rd, 5th

The rule ended up not helping Botvinnik much, if any. The one year
it had any effect during his reign was 1962, when Stein tied with
Benko and Gligoric at the Interzonal but was not allowed into the
Candidates. The challenger from that cycle, Petrosian, dethroned
Botvinnik and because the rematch rule had been abolished, MMB never
got the title back.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 2:46 pm
From: Quadibloc

On Nov 26, 6:25 am, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In a surprising development, the Chinese have won all the titles in
> the World Championship of Chinese chess.
>
> Who would have imagined that the Chinese would win everything in a
> competition for Chinese chess?

I was wondering why you would say such a thing. After all, the Chinese
form of chess receives very little attention outside China.

Of course, there are other countries where Chinese people live,
particularly Hong Kong (now a Special Administrative Region in China,
of course, but for some purposes like another country) and Taiwan and
Singapore.

> The moderator who gave out the prizes in the awards ceremony always
> sounded like the most surprised person in the world when she kept
> announcing "The Winner is From China".

But perhaps this simply inspired you to comment in an ironic fashion
at the beginning.

John Savard

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 127 Photos from the World Championship on Chinese Chess in Jakarta
Indonesia
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/t/73005edf1c97def1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 8:44 am
From: brad

Were there any western women players there. Can't really tell by the
pictures.

brad

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 2:40 pm
From: samsloan

On Nov 27, 8:44 am, brad <bradcla...@msn.com> wrote:
> Were there any western women players there. Can't really tell by the
> pictures.
>
> brad

No. There were no Western women players.

However, there is one. She is Marcy Cohen, the wife of USA Chess
Grandmaster Andy Soltis. I am told that she is about my strength at
Chinese chess but I have never played her.

She refuses to play in the Woman's Section. She wants to play in the
Men's or "Open" section. The Chinese officials will not agree to this.

She wrote an article about this that is posted somewhere on the USCF
website at uschess.org

Sam Sloan

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rec.games.bridge - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

2011-11-27T16:39:00.001-08:00

rec.games.bridge
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge?hl=en

rec.games.bridge@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 26 2011 5:04 pm
From: Will in New Haven

With five-only Hearts and a weak hand, I would probably go quietly via
a pass. However, I COULD sign off in 3H via a Lebensohl relay.
With an intermediate-strength hand that is not suitable for a penalty
double of 2S, I have to decide whether to treat it as competitive as
above or to force to game.
With a game-forcing hand, I bid 3H directly.

--
Will in New Haven
All change for round six; slow pairs please go hom.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:01 am
From: "Paul Hightower"

"Kenny McCormack" <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote in message
news:jar5q3$2ln$1@news.xmission.com...
> I'm looking for two things in this post/thread:
>
> 1) A general outlook/system/plan (to "How do people deal with
> interference over their 1N openings)
> 2) Answers to a specific set of questions
>
> The specific question is: Suppose you have a typical hand with 5 hearts
> where strength is weak/intermediate/strong (where we interpret these terms
> to mean "signoff/invitation/forcing" in the context of whatever your
> opening
> 1N range is). Partner opens 1N, next hand bids 2S, what do you do with
> each
> of these hands? Note that in all cases, had there been no interference,
> you'd have started with a 2D transfer. But now what?

What I use is:
DBL = 8+, balanced -- opener can bid or pass as looks best
2 of suit = to play
3 of suit = forcing
cue-bid = Stayman
2NT: lebensohl, relay to 3C, typically planning to pass or correct to
another suit
3NT: to play, includes a stopper since a non-stopper hand could double or
make a forcing bid in a suit

In a set partnership I'd probably favor the Rubensohl approach (transfers
starting at 2NT.)

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 12:34 am
From: Eric Leong

On Friday, November 25, 2011 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, jonathan23 wrote:
> Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> --
> - Jon Campbell
> Ottawa Canada

In KS (Kaplan Sheinwold system) this is a perfect 3NT bid.

Eric Leong

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 1:23 am
From: Dave Flower

On Nov 25, 11:11 pm, Michael Angelo Ravera <marav...@prodigy.net>
wrote:
> On Friday, November 25, 2011 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, jonathan23 wrote:
> > Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> > majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> > in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> > Kx
> > AQx
> > AKQxxx
> > Kx
>
> > What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>
> Playing your system, It's too strong (by almost a king, I'd say) to open 2NT, so I pick 2C. With most of my partners a 2D response shows a hand that can't promise 2 tricks, so 6D won't be a laydown on a 2D response. I will likely choose a 2NT rebid after 2D. It looks like a fast 8 tricks and then looking for help on a non-diamond lead opposite a bust. A black queen gives you a fairly easy nine tricks. A black ace or the HK (with which partner will likely raise you to 3NT) makes an easy 9.

A black queen at trick one gives you a fairly easy eight tricks, but
black queens at tricks one and two are not so good.

Dave Flower

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:13 am
From: "Paul Hightower"

"jonathan23" <campbejk@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1ee52634-16cc-4374-8301-c8a5c97bcab6@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
> Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>

Too strong for a 20-21 2NT, so I'll open 2C and expect to rebid 2NT,
treating as a balanced 22. But I may choose to show the diamonds over a
slam-positive response.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:29 am
From: "Paul Hightower"

"Michael Angelo Ravera" <maravera@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:25452765.357.1322262691598.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prmr38...
On Friday, November 25, 2011 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, jonathan23 wrote:
> Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?

Playing your system, It's too strong (by almost a king, I'd say) to open
2NT...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've seen good evdeince that a six-card suit at notrump is worth only a
point or so, definetely not 3. A five card suit is worth a surprisingly
small 0.4 points, according to a study of real-life results by the French
Bridge Federation.

Apparently, at notrump, stoppers are more critical than having a source of
tricks, and trying to make game with inadequate high cards just leaves you
short on stoppers most of the time. It's easy to construct obvious
exceptions, and sometimes you can bid those such as after a weak two opening
or a Gambling 3NT, but on balance it's best not to overbid notrump hands
based on long suits. However, those who treat this as a balanced 21 are
certainly underbidding IMO.

Here I expect to have 8 tricks on any lead but an unlikely diamond; partner
will raise my 2C-2x; 2NT sequence with an Ace or King, obviously, and game
will be easy. He might pass an opening 2NT bid with only 3 or 4 points. Game
may be a challenge opposite a random Q+J, but a lead from the Ace toward
either of my Kings where partner has Qxx may be enough. All in all I think
I'll make game much more often than not opposite 3 hcp, hence 2C opening. On
the other hand I'll have little play if partner passes my 2NT rebid, so no
reason to make a stronger rebid. One to one-and-half points for the diamond
suit looks about right.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:09 am
From: "Steve Foster"

jogs wrote:

> On studies I've seen poor 4-4 fits often play
> badly even when opposing trumps split 3-2.

Yeah, you're usually much better off in a 3-2 fit... <g>

--
Steve Foster
For SSL Certificates, Domains, etc, visit.:
https://netshop.virtual-isp.net

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:08 am
From: "Paul Hightower"

"Sunrise" <sunrise9966@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6b03ed23-b627-4d82-92d2-f5ca53c2b47c@h37g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> IMP
> NV vs NV
>
> You hold
>
> 9xxx
> x
> AK76xxx (7)
> x
>
> RHO passes
> What do you bid in your system?
> Do you consider the 4S a deterrent for preempting?
> What are your requirements in 2nd seat?
>
> Thank you for your ideas

Sure, 3D for me. I prefer my preempts to have some strength; I would not
play a style where this was "too good" for a preempt.

The four spades are a flaw and I wouldn't open 3D if you moved one of the
high honors over to spades, but I won't let four small in a suit keeep me
from bidding a good suit.

First or second seat I'm looking for 5-9 hcp and 6+ length in a good to fair
suit. (With 6, of course, I'll typically choose a weak two if that's an
option.) I don't have a precise formula, I'm more disciplined in second
seat than first or third.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 12:04 pm
From: "Fred."

I think a number of us said to, of course, preempt
and a number of us said to, of course, not. My
impression is that there are plenty of successful
partnerships on both sides of the divide.

If you play less disciplined preempts, you will be
able to make them more often. The penalty will
be that partner will be less able to make informed
decisions on follow-up actions.

The important thing is to have an agreement in place
so that partner can chose actions based on whatever
your maximum in defense and minimum in offense is
likely to be.

Fred.

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:10 am
From: Bertil

On Nov 26, 6:56 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 6:37 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 26, 12:05 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 25, 11:20 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 25, 3:53 pm, Martin Ambuhl <mamb...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On 11/25/2011 10:20 AM, Bertil wrote:
>
> > > > > > Counting LTC for opening hands does not agree with Klinger's book.
> > > > > > He makes it very clear that LTC applies only after an 8-fit or better
> > > > > > has been found.
> > > > > > Who has advocated applying LTC on ordinary opening hands?
>
> > > > > Klinger makes the claim that LTC should not be used for opening the
> > > > > bidding except for opening bids specifically playing strength.
>
> > > > > Note that CAB players (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> > > > > using LTC as the primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
> > > > > Note that Roman player (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> > > > > using LTC as a primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
>
> > > > > His ignoring the Roman players is amazing. He claims, for example, on
> > > > > p.11 that after Courtney & Walshe's 1935 book "It was given scant
> > > > > attention then ... and cam to light again in 1961 through the endeavors
> > > > > of Maurice Harrison-Gray...". Apparently Klinger is unaware of
> > > > > Belladonna & Avarelli's successes in the period between 1935 and 1961.
> > > > > He claims (p.69) that "The concept of 'cover cards' was devised by
> > > > > George Rosenkranz...". George Rosenkranz knows better, and has
> > > > > frequently in writing acknowledged that the Roman players provided the
> > > > > concept. They were using 'cover cards' at least by the early 1950s.
> > > > > Apparently Klinger hasn't even bothered to read Rosenkranz.
>
> > > > > If you want a real laugh, check section (5) of the appendix. This has a
> > > > > riotous confusion of categories. According to Klinger,
> > > > > a) S:Axxxxx H:Kxxx D:xx C:x (7 HCP)
> > > > > is a better 7 loser hand than
> > > > > b) S:AJxxxx H:KJxx D:QJ C:Q (14 HCP)
> > > > > This his arithmetic.
> > > > > (1) (2) (3) (2)-(3) LTC
> > > > > Controls Control HCP correction net
> > > > > points
> > > > > Hand a 3 10 7 +3 -1/2 loser 6 1/2 LTC
> > > > > Hand b 3 10 14 -4 +1/2 loser 7 1/2 LTC
>
> > > > > Take Klinger and his _The Modern Losing Trick Count_ with a grain of salt.
>
> > > > This is one of the most interesting posts I'v seen in a long time.
> > > > But it's also confusing. It seems to say that any hand with 7 or
> > > > fewer LTC can be opened at the one level.
> > > > Surely a 7-6-0-0 type hand with no HCP would not qualify. Nor do I
> > > > think a hand like Axxxx-xx-x-Kxxxx
> > > > would qualify even though it has only 7 LTC. So what other rules must
> > > > one apply with 6-7 LTC?
> > > > E.g would xx-AQxxx-Kxxx-x qualify and should one pass Qxx-KJxxx-KQx-
> > > > QT ?
> > > > Searching for LTC at Google did not help. All sites say LTC must be
> > > > based on a good fit.
>
> > > You really need to refine your search methods. BridgeGuys.com talks
> > > about _opening_ based on LTC, and that site pops up first in almost
> > > any search for bridge info.
>
> > >http://www.bridgeguys.com/LGlossary/LosingTrickCount.html:
>
> > > "A player, in deciding to open the auction, uses the Initial Count. An
> > > opening bid is based on:
>
> > > 1. not holding more than 7 losers.
> > > 2. holding adequate high card values, including 2 defensive tricks.
> > > 3. a sound rebid."
>
> > > I like that "adequate high card values". That probably sums up my
> > > opening hand evaluation pretty well.
>
> > Not unexpectedly your website reference does not work.
>
> Not surprisingly, you're an idiot. It works just fine, even using it
> from YOUR post. And it says exactly what I quoted. Why I even bother
> to try to help someone with such a closed mind is beyond me. Bye.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Let me recap so everybody will understand why I respond as follows.
I clicked on the website you posted but it was dead,
I posed a specific problem but you were unable to make a rational
answer.
Instead you resorted, as you have done in the past, to a vile
invective and signed off with Bye.
Does that mean I've rid myself and RGB of the premier shithead, after
HS departed?
If so, I say Hallelujah, Praise the Lord and good riddens of stinking
rubbish. I should be so luckey.
Imagine I just celebrated Thanksgiving hoping for peace and harmony
and good fellowship at RGB
only to be rudely taken back to an ugly reality created by you over a
period of time.
But I predict you'll soon be back for more humiliation, because you
are a masochist and a sick mongrel or cur.
See you later Aligator or in a while Crocodile, or maybe you are just
a Snapping Turtle. Bite my shorts.

Bertil

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:48 am
From: Bertil

On Nov 25, 11:08 pm, Martin Ambuhl <mamb...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On 11/25/2011 10:20 PM, Bertil wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 25, 3:53 pm, Martin Ambuhl<mamb...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> On 11/25/2011 10:20 AM, Bertil wrote:
>
> >>> Counting LTC for opening hands does not agree with Klinger's book.
> >>> He makes it very clear that LTC applies only after an 8-fit or better
> >>> has been found.
> >>> Who has advocated applying LTC on ordinary opening hands?
>
> >> Klinger makes the claim that LTC should not be used for opening the
> >> bidding except for opening bids specifically playing strength.
>
> >> Note that CAB players (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> >> using LTC as the primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
> >> Note that Roman player (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> >> using LTC as a primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
>
> >> His ignoring the Roman players is amazing. He claims, for example, on
> >> p.11 that after Courtney& Walshe's 1935 book "It was given scant
> >> attention then ... and cam to light again in 1961 through the endeavors
> >> of Maurice Harrison-Gray...". Apparently Klinger is unaware of
> >> Belladonna& Avarelli's successes in the period between 1935 and 1961.
> >> He claims (p.69) that "The concept of 'cover cards' was devised by
> >> George Rosenkranz...". George Rosenkranz knows better, and has
> >> frequently in writing acknowledged that the Roman players provided the
> >> concept. They were using 'cover cards' at least by the early 1950s.
> >> Apparently Klinger hasn't even bothered to read Rosenkranz.
>
> >> If you want a real laugh, check section (5) of the appendix. This has a
> >> riotous confusion of categories. According to Klinger,
> >> a) S:Axxxxx H:Kxxx D:xx C:x (7 HCP)
> >> is a better 7 loser hand than
> >> b) S:AJxxxx H:KJxx D:QJ C:Q (14 HCP)
> >> This his arithmetic.
> >> (1) (2) (3) (2)-(3) LTC
> >> Controls Control HCP correction net
> >> points
> >> Hand a 3 10 7 +3 -1/2 loser 6 1/2 LTC
> >> Hand b 3 10 14 -4 +1/2 loser 7 1/2 LTC
>
> >> Take Klinger and his _The Modern Losing Trick Count_ with a grain of salt.
>
> > This is one of the most interesting posts I'v seen in a long time.
> > But it's also confusing. It seems to say that any hand with 7 or
> > fewer LTC can be opened at the one level.
>
> Well, not really. Remember that I wrote>> Note that CAB players (whom
> >> Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> >> using LTC as the primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
> >> Note that Roman player (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> >> using LTC as a primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
> The key words are "as the primary evaluation method" for CAB players and
> "as a primary evaluation method" for Roman players. They both included
> some count of high card content, as well, as one example. Further, the
> early 1950s Roman correction for isolated non-losing Ks and Qs is better
> than anything Klinger has on offer.
>
> > Surely a 7-6-0-0 type hand with no HCP would not qualify. Nor do I
> > think a hand like Axxxx-xx-x-Kxxxx
> > would qualify even though it has only 7 LTC. So what other rules must
> > one apply with 6-7 LTC?
>
> When I played Animal Acol (the MIT form of Baronized Acol, dating from
> David Beer's teams in the 1950s and played almost as the MIT system at
> least into the early 1970s), our standards were
> 1) Balanced 12 with 2 QT or
> 2) Unbalanced 7 LTC with 3 controls, or possibly KQ-KQ.
> This worked very well for us. And remember that Lowenthal's Canary Club
> -- unfortunately not playable in most ACBL events outside long team
> matches or clubs that allowed almost anything -- opened 7 LTC with no
> promise of defensive values. He took the limitation of non-1C openings
> by the 17+ 1C bid seriously. I should point out that many Canary
> players use Roman LTC rather than Klinger's variety. This makes sense
> in that Canary can be roughly described as Roman with the 1C and 1NT
> bids switched (and a positive relay instead of a negative one).
>
> And yes, Animal players would open Axxxx-xx-x-Kxxxx, CAB and Canary
> players might open it, and Roman players would not. The primary reason
> Roman players would nor (except perhaps in 3rd seat), is that the system
> constrains them to bid this as a spade 1-suiter (1S ... 2S) or a sound
> minimum S-C two suiter (2S). Both are unappealing.
>
> > E.g would xx-AQxxx-Kxxx-x qualify and should one pass Qxx-KJxxx-KQx-
> > QT ?
>
> The first is missing a card. I suppose you want 7 LTC, so
> xx-AQxxx-Kxxx-xx or xxx-AQxxx-Kxxx-x.
> Again, Animal players open both, CAB and Canary players might, and Roman
> players would not. Some Roman players might open the second or both
> with 1H, since treating these as a heart 1-suiter isn't sick-making. To
> open 1D and bid 1NT (showing 5 hearts) over the negative 1H step (or 2H
> over higher responses) is too rich a path on this collection.
>
> Notice that Axxxx-xx-x-Kxxxx has 7 1/4 Roman LTC, and the long cards are
> suspect as non-losers (adding in the Blue team correction for length,
> this is 7 3/4 LTC).
>
> xx-AQxxx-Kxxx-xx and xxx-AQxxx-Kxxx-x are also 7 1/4 Roman LTC, and the
> long cards are even more suspect (adding in the Blue team correction for
> length, these are 8 LTC).
>
> Qxx-KJxxx-KQx-QT is 7 1/2 Roman LTC, but 13 HCP is usually too much to
> pass. The QT doubleton, isolated Q in Qxx, and absence of aces will
> persuade some to pass, while others will not consider them
> disqualifying. Animal players might well pass, CAB players would
> probably open 1H. Roman players would probably open 1H but might pass.
>
>
>
> > Searching for LTC at Google did not help. All sites say LTC must be
> > based on a good fit.
>
> > Bertil- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Lacking your vast experience and know how of other systems I'm unable
to comment on your post.
But I would like to ask why you made no mentioning of other LTC
counts, such as the New LTC from
an article in BW in 2003 by Koelman. It's based on counting half
losers for missing honors.
Specifically it counts 3 for the A, 2 for the K and 1 for the Q, for a
total of 6 halves or 3 losers.
This seems equal to counting Axx=1.5, K=2 and Q=2.5 in Klinger's
system.
Using this count one would treat a 5-3-3-2 hand with only three Aces
as 6.5 or 7 losers,
depending on where the 3rd A is located, and thus the hand could be
opened in tems of LTC.
Is the NLTC used by experts?

Bertil

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 7:07 am
From: Charles Brenner

On Nov 27, 4:10 am, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 6:56 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 26, 6:37 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 26, 12:05 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 25, 11:20 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Nov 25, 3:53 pm, Martin Ambuhl <mamb...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On 11/25/2011 10:20 AM, Bertil wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Counting LTC for opening hands does not agree with Klinger's book.
> > > > > > > He makes it very clear that LTC applies only after an 8-fit or better
> > > > > > > has been found.
> > > > > > > Who has advocated applying LTC on ordinary opening hands?
>
> > > > > > Klinger makes the claim that LTC should not be used for opening the
> > > > > > bidding except for opening bids specifically playing strength.
>
> > > > > > Note that CAB players (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> > > > > > using LTC as the primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
> > > > > > Note that Roman player (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> > > > > > using LTC as a primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
>
> > > > > > His ignoring the Roman players is amazing. He claims, for example, on
> > > > > > p.11 that after Courtney & Walshe's 1935 book "It was given scant
> > > > > > attention then ... and cam to light again in 1961 through the endeavors
> > > > > > of Maurice Harrison-Gray...". Apparently Klinger is unaware of
> > > > > > Belladonna & Avarelli's successes in the period between 1935 and 1961.
> > > > > > He claims (p.69) that "The concept of 'cover cards' was devised by
> > > > > > George Rosenkranz...". George Rosenkranz knows better, and has
> > > > > > frequently in writing acknowledged that the Roman players provided the
> > > > > > concept. They were using 'cover cards' at least by the early 1950s.
> > > > > > Apparently Klinger hasn't even bothered to read Rosenkranz.
>
> > > > > > If you want a real laugh, check section (5) of the appendix. This has a
> > > > > > riotous confusion of categories. According to Klinger,
> > > > > > a) S:Axxxxx H:Kxxx D:xx C:x (7 HCP)
> > > > > > is a better 7 loser hand than
> > > > > > b) S:AJxxxx H:KJxx D:QJ C:Q (14 HCP)
> > > > > > This his arithmetic.
> > > > > > (1) (2) (3) (2)-(3) LTC
> > > > > > Controls Control HCP correction net
> > > > > > points
> > > > > > Hand a 3 10 7 +3 -1/2 loser 6 1/2 LTC
> > > > > > Hand b 3 10 14 -4 +1/2 loser 7 1/2 LTC
>
> > > > > > Take Klinger and his _The Modern Losing Trick Count_ with a grain of salt.
>
> > > > > This is one of the most interesting posts I'v seen in a long time.
> > > > > But it's also confusing. It seems to say that any hand with 7 or
> > > > > fewer LTC can be opened at the one level.
> > > > > Surely a 7-6-0-0 type hand with no HCP would not qualify. Nor do I
> > > > > think a hand like Axxxx-xx-x-Kxxxx
> > > > > would qualify even though it has only 7 LTC. So what other rules must
> > > > > one apply with 6-7 LTC?
> > > > > E.g would xx-AQxxx-Kxxx-x qualify and should one pass Qxx-KJxxx-KQx-
> > > > > QT ?
> > > > > Searching for LTC at Google did not help. All sites say LTC must be
> > > > > based on a good fit.
>
> > > > You really need to refine your search methods. BridgeGuys.com talks
> > > > about _opening_ based on LTC, and that site pops up first in almost
> > > > any search for bridge info.
>
> > > >http://www.bridgeguys.com/LGlossary/LosingTrickCount.html:
>
> > > > "A player, in deciding to open the auction, uses the Initial Count. An
> > > > opening bid is based on:
>
> > > > 1. not holding more than 7 losers.
> > > > 2. holding adequate high card values, including 2 defensive tricks.
> > > > 3. a sound rebid."
>
> > > > I like that "adequate high card values". That probably sums up my
> > > > opening hand evaluation pretty well.
>
> > > Not unexpectedly your website reference does not work.
>
> > Not surprisingly, you're an idiot. It works just fine, even using it
> > from YOUR post. And it says exactly what I quoted. Why I even bother
> > to try to help someone with such a closed mind is beyond me. Bye.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Let me recap so everybody will understand why I respond as follows.
> I clicked on the website you posted but it was dead,
> I posed a specific problem but you were unable to make a rational
> answer.
> Instead you resorted, as you have done in the past, to a vile
> invective and signed off with Bye.

Do you have some kind of mental filter that helps you automatically
ignore helpful and pleasant posts such as that of Andrew B (not to
mention my own post helpfully explaining how you misunderstood Ira
Corn), while honing in on those who reply to you with rude drivel? Yes
Derek was wrong but you don't need to be helpless.

Charles

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 1:47 pm
From: Bertil

On Nov 27, 10:07 am, Charles Brenner <challambren...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 4:10 am, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 26, 6:56 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 26, 6:37 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 26, 12:05 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Nov 25, 11:20 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Nov 25, 3:53 pm, Martin Ambuhl <mamb...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On 11/25/2011 10:20 AM, Bertil wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Counting LTC for opening hands does not agree with Klinger's book.
> > > > > > > > He makes it very clear that LTC applies only after an 8-fit or better
> > > > > > > > has been found.
> > > > > > > > Who has advocated applying LTC on ordinary opening hands?
>
> > > > > > > Klinger makes the claim that LTC should not be used for opening the
> > > > > > > bidding except for opening bids specifically playing strength.
>
> > > > > > > Note that CAB players (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> > > > > > > using LTC as the primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
> > > > > > > Note that Roman player (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> > > > > > > using LTC as a primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
>
> > > > > > > His ignoring the Roman players is amazing. He claims, for example, on
> > > > > > > p.11 that after Courtney & Walshe's 1935 book "It was given scant
> > > > > > > attention then ... and cam to light again in 1961 through the endeavors
> > > > > > > of Maurice Harrison-Gray...". Apparently Klinger is unaware of
> > > > > > > Belladonna & Avarelli's successes in the period between 1935 and 1961.
> > > > > > > He claims (p.69) that "The concept of 'cover cards' was devised by
> > > > > > > George Rosenkranz...". George Rosenkranz knows better, and has
> > > > > > > frequently in writing acknowledged that the Roman players provided the
> > > > > > > concept. They were using 'cover cards' at least by the early 1950s.
> > > > > > > Apparently Klinger hasn't even bothered to read Rosenkranz.
>
> > > > > > > If you want a real laugh, check section (5) of the appendix. This has a
> > > > > > > riotous confusion of categories. According to Klinger,
> > > > > > > a) S:Axxxxx H:Kxxx D:xx C:x (7 HCP)
> > > > > > > is a better 7 loser hand than
> > > > > > > b) S:AJxxxx H:KJxx D:QJ C:Q (14 HCP)
> > > > > > > This his arithmetic.
> > > > > > > (1) (2) (3) (2)-(3) LTC
> > > > > > > Controls Control HCP correction net
> > > > > > > points
> > > > > > > Hand a 3 10 7 +3 -1/2 loser 6 1/2 LTC
> > > > > > > Hand b 3 10 14 -4 +1/2 loser 7 1/2 LTC
>
> > > > > > > Take Klinger and his _The Modern Losing Trick Count_ with a grain of salt.
>
> > > > > > This is one of the most interesting posts I'v seen in a long time.
> > > > > > But it's also confusing. It seems to say that any hand with 7 or
> > > > > > fewer LTC can be opened at the one level.
> > > > > > Surely a 7-6-0-0 type hand with no HCP would not qualify. Nor do I
> > > > > > think a hand like Axxxx-xx-x-Kxxxx
> > > > > > would qualify even though it has only 7 LTC. So what other rules must
> > > > > > one apply with 6-7 LTC?
> > > > > > E.g would xx-AQxxx-Kxxx-x qualify and should one pass Qxx-KJxxx-KQx-
> > > > > > QT ?
> > > > > > Searching for LTC at Google did not help. All sites say LTC must be
> > > > > > based on a good fit.
>
> > > > > You really need to refine your search methods. BridgeGuys.com talks
> > > > > about _opening_ based on LTC, and that site pops up first in almost
> > > > > any search for bridge info.
>
> > > > >http://www.bridgeguys.com/LGlossary/LosingTrickCount.html:
>
> > > > > "A player, in deciding to open the auction, uses the Initial Count. An
> > > > > opening bid is based on:
>
> > > > > 1. not holding more than 7 losers.
> > > > > 2. holding adequate high card values, including 2 defensive tricks.
> > > > > 3. a sound rebid."
>
> > > > > I like that "adequate high card values". That probably sums up my
> > > > > opening hand evaluation pretty well.
>
> > > > Not unexpectedly your website reference does not work.
>
> > > Not surprisingly, you're an idiot. It works just fine, even using it
> > > from YOUR post. And it says exactly what I quoted. Why I even bother
> > > to try to help someone with such a closed mind is beyond me. Bye.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Let me recap so everybody will understand why I respond as follows.
> > I clicked on the website you posted but it was dead,
> > I posed a specific problem but you were unable to make a rational
> > answer.
> > Instead you resorted, as you have done in the past, to a vile
> > invective and signed off with Bye.
>
> Do you have some kind of mental filter that helps you automatically
> ignore helpful and pleasant posts such as that of Andrew B (not to
> mention my own post helpfully explaining how you misunderstood Ira
> Corn), while honing in on those who reply to you with rude drivel? Yes
> Derek was wrong but you don't need to be helpless.
>
> Charles- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The 6th Edition of the ACBL Encyclopedia says that Ira Corn won Mixed
Pairs 1963,
Men's Team 1968 and Vanderbilt 1973. That in my mind shows expertise.

Bertil

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 2:53 pm
From: Bertil

On Nov 27, 4:47 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 10:07 am, Charles Brenner <challambren...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 27, 4:10 am, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 26, 6:56 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 26, 6:37 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Nov 26, 12:05 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Nov 25, 11:20 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Nov 25, 3:53 pm, Martin Ambuhl <mamb...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On 11/25/2011 10:20 AM, Bertil wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Counting LTC for opening hands does not agree with Klinger's book.
> > > > > > > > > He makes it very clear that LTC applies only after an 8-fit or better
> > > > > > > > > has been found.
> > > > > > > > > Who has advocated applying LTC on ordinary opening hands?
>
> > > > > > > > Klinger makes the claim that LTC should not be used for opening the
> > > > > > > > bidding except for opening bids specifically playing strength.
>
> > > > > > > > Note that CAB players (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> > > > > > > > using LTC as the primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
> > > > > > > > Note that Roman player (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a lot of events
> > > > > > > > using LTC as a primary evaluation method for opening the bidding.
>
> > > > > > > > His ignoring the Roman players is amazing. He claims, for example, on
> > > > > > > > p.11 that after Courtney & Walshe's 1935 book "It was given scant
> > > > > > > > attention then ... and cam to light again in 1961 through the endeavors
> > > > > > > > of Maurice Harrison-Gray...". Apparently Klinger is unaware of
> > > > > > > > Belladonna & Avarelli's successes in the period between 1935 and 1961.
> > > > > > > > He claims (p.69) that "The concept of 'cover cards' was devised by
> > > > > > > > George Rosenkranz...". George Rosenkranz knows better, and has
> > > > > > > > frequently in writing acknowledged that the Roman players provided the
> > > > > > > > concept. They were using 'cover cards' at least by the early 1950s.
> > > > > > > > Apparently Klinger hasn't even bothered to read Rosenkranz.
>
> > > > > > > > If you want a real laugh, check section (5) of the appendix. This has a
> > > > > > > > riotous confusion of categories. According to Klinger,
> > > > > > > > a) S:Axxxxx H:Kxxx D:xx C:x (7 HCP)
> > > > > > > > is a better 7 loser hand than
> > > > > > > > b) S:AJxxxx H:KJxx D:QJ C:Q (14 HCP)
> > > > > > > > This his arithmetic.
> > > > > > > > (1) (2) (3) (2)-(3) LTC
> > > > > > > > Controls Control HCP correction net
> > > > > > > > points
> > > > > > > > Hand a 3 10 7 +3 -1/2 loser 6 1/2 LTC
> > > > > > > > Hand b 3 10 14 -4 +1/2 loser 7 1/2 LTC
>
> > > > > > > > Take Klinger and his _The Modern Losing Trick Count_ with a grain of salt.
>
> > > > > > > This is one of the most interesting posts I'v seen in a long time.
> > > > > > > But it's also confusing. It seems to say that any hand with 7 or
> > > > > > > fewer LTC can be opened at the one level.
> > > > > > > Surely a 7-6-0-0 type hand with no HCP would not qualify. Nor do I
> > > > > > > think a hand like Axxxx-xx-x-Kxxxx
> > > > > > > would qualify even though it has only 7 LTC. So what other rules must
> > > > > > > one apply with 6-7 LTC?
> > > > > > > E.g would xx-AQxxx-Kxxx-x qualify and should one pass Qxx-KJxxx-KQx-
> > > > > > > QT ?
> > > > > > > Searching for LTC at Google did not help. All sites say LTC must be
> > > > > > > based on a good fit.
>
> > > > > > You really need to refine your search methods. BridgeGuys.com talks
> > > > > > about _opening_ based on LTC, and that site pops up first in almost
> > > > > > any search for bridge info.
>
> > > > > >http://www.bridgeguys.com/LGlossary/LosingTrickCount.html:
>
> > > > > > "A player, in deciding to open the auction, uses the Initial Count. An
> > > > > > opening bid is based on:
>
> > > > > > 1. not holding more than 7 losers.
> > > > > > 2. holding adequate high card values, including 2 defensive tricks.
> > > > > > 3. a sound rebid."
>
> > > > > > I like that "adequate high card values". That probably sums up my
> > > > > > opening hand evaluation pretty well.
>
> > > > > Not unexpectedly your website reference does not work.
>
> > > > Not surprisingly, you're an idiot. It works just fine, even using it
> > > > from YOUR post. And it says exactly what I quoted. Why I even bother
> > > > to try to help someone with such a closed mind is beyond me. Bye.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Let me recap so everybody will understand why I respond as follows.
> > > I clicked on the website you posted but it was dead,
> > > I posed a specific problem but you were unable to make a rational
> > > answer.
> > > Instead you resorted, as you have done in the past, to a vile
> > > invective and signed off with Bye.
>
> > Do you have some kind of mental filter that helps you automatically
> > ignore helpful and pleasant posts such as that of Andrew B (not to
> > mention my own post helpfully explaining how you misunderstood Ira
> > Corn), while honing in on those who reply to you with rude drivel? Yes
> > Derek was wrong but you don't need to be helpless.
>
> > Charles- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The 6th Edition of the ACBL Encyclopedia says that Ira Corn won Mixed
> Pairs 1963,
> Men's Team 1968 and Vanderbilt 1973. That in my mind shows expertise.
>
> Bertil- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The other day I tried to e-mail my son but it was undelivered twice
because of typos.
So why would I try to retype the website given, that is much more
complicated.
It's up to the poster to correct his typos.
I trusted the ACBL Editors with regard to Ira Corn. So why is there an
argument?

Bertil

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 3:33 pm
From: HoneyMonster

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:53:22 -0800, Bertil wrote:

> On Nov 27, 4:47 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 27, 10:07 am, Charles Brenner <challambren...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 27, 4:10 am, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Nov 26, 6:56 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>>
>> > > > On Nov 26, 6:37 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > On Nov 26, 12:05 pm, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > On Nov 25, 11:20 pm, Bertil <stigfjor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > On Nov 25, 3:53 pm, Martin Ambuhl <mamb...@earthlink.net>
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > > On 11/25/2011 10:20 AM, Bertil wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > > > Counting LTC for opening hands does not agree with
>> > > > > > > > > Klinger's book. He makes it very clear that LTC applies
>> > > > > > > > > only after an 8-fit or better has been found.
>> > > > > > > > > Who has advocated applying LTC on ordinary opening
>> > > > > > > > > hands?
>>
>> > > > > > > > Klinger makes the claim that LTC should not be used for
>> > > > > > > > opening the bidding except for opening bids specifically
>> > > > > > > > playing strength.
>>
>> > > > > > > > Note that CAB players (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a
>> > > > > > > > lot of events using LTC as the primary evaluation method
>> > > > > > > > for opening the bidding.
>> > > > > > > > Note that Roman player (whom Klinger ignores) won quite a
>> > > > > > > > lot of events using LTC as a primary evaluation method
>> > > > > > > > for opening the bidding.
>>
>> > > > > > > > His ignoring the Roman players is amazing. He claims,
>> > > > > > > > for example, on p.11 that after Courtney & Walshe's 1935
>> > > > > > > > book "It was given scant attention then ... and cam to
>> > > > > > > > light again in 1961 through the endeavors of Maurice
>> > > > > > > > Harrison-Gray...". Apparently Klinger is unaware of
>> > > > > > > > Belladonna & Avarelli's successes in the period between
>> > > > > > > > 1935 and 1961.
>> > > > > > > > He claims (p.69) that "The concept of 'cover cards' was
>> > > > > > > > devised by George Rosenkranz...". George Rosenkranz
>> > > > > > > > knows better, and has frequently in writing acknowledged
>> > > > > > > > that the Roman players provided the concept. They were
>> > > > > > > > using 'cover cards' at least by the early 1950s.
>> > > > > > > > Apparently Klinger hasn't even bothered to read
>> > > > > > > > Rosenkranz.
>>
>> > > > > > > > If you want a real laugh, check section (5) of the
>> > > > > > > > appendix. This has a riotous confusion of categories.
>> > > > > > > > According to Klinger,
>> > > > > > > > a) S:Axxxxx H:Kxxx D:xx C:x (7 HCP)
>> > > > > > > > is a better 7 loser hand than b) S:AJxxxx H:KJxx D:QJ C:Q
>> > > > > > > > (14 HCP)
>> > > > > > > > This his arithmetic.
>> > > > > > > > (1) (2) (3) (2)-(3) LTC
>> > > > > > > > Controls Control HCP correction
>> > > > > > > > net
>> > > > > > > > points
>> > > > > > > > Hand a 3 10 7 +3 -1/2 loser 6 1/2
>> > > > > > > > LTC Hand b 3 10 14 -4 +1/2 loser 7
>> > > > > > > > 1/2 LTC
>>
>> > > > > > > > Take Klinger and his _The Modern Losing Trick Count_ with
>> > > > > > > > a grain of salt.
>>
>> > > > > > > This is one of the most interesting posts I'v seen in a
>> > > > > > > long time.
>> > > > > > > But it's also confusing. It seems to say that any hand
>> > > > > > > with 7 or fewer LTC can be opened at the one level.
>> > > > > > > Surely a 7-6-0-0 type hand with no HCP would not qualify.
>> > > > > > > Nor do I think a hand like Axxxx-xx-x-Kxxxx would qualify
>> > > > > > > even though it has only 7 LTC. So what other rules must
>> > > > > > > one apply with 6-7 LTC?
>> > > > > > > E.g would xx-AQxxx-Kxxx-x qualify and should one pass
>> > > > > > > Qxx-KJxxx-KQx- QT ?
>> > > > > > > Searching for LTC at Google did not help. All sites say LTC
>> > > > > > > must be based on a good fit.
>>
>> > > > > > You really need to refine your search methods.
>> > > > > > BridgeGuys.com talks about _opening_ based on LTC, and that
>> > > > > > site pops up first in almost any search for bridge info.
>>
>> > > > > >http://www.bridgeguys.com/LGlossary/LosingTrickCount.html:
>>
>> > > > > > "A player, in deciding to open the auction, uses the Initial
>> > > > > > Count. An opening bid is based on:
>>
>> > > > > > 1. not holding more than 7 losers.
>> > > > > > 2. holding adequate high card values, including 2 defensive
>> > > > > > tricks. 3. a sound rebid."
>>
>> > > > > > I like that "adequate high card values". That probably sums
>> > > > > > up my opening hand evaluation pretty well.
>>
>> > > > > Not unexpectedly your website reference does not work.
>>
>> > > > Not surprisingly, you're an idiot. It works just fine, even
>> > > > using it from YOUR post. And it says exactly what I quoted. Why
>> > > > I even bother to try to help someone with such a closed mind is
>> > > > beyond me. Bye.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > Let me recap so everybody will understand why I respond as follows.
>> > > I clicked on the website you posted but it was dead,
>> > > I posed a specific problem but you were unable to make a rational
>> > > answer.
>> > > Instead you resorted, as you have done in the past, to a vile
>> > > invective and signed off with Bye.
>>
>> > Do you have some kind of mental filter that helps you automatically
>> > ignore helpful and pleasant posts such as that of Andrew B (not to
>> > mention my own post helpfully explaining how you misunderstood Ira
>> > Corn), while honing in on those who reply to you with rude drivel?
>> > Yes Derek was wrong but you don't need to be helpless.
>>
>> > Charles- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> The 6th Edition of the ACBL Encyclopedia says that Ira Corn won Mixed
>> Pairs 1963,
>> Men's Team 1968 and Vanderbilt 1973. That in my mind shows expertise.
>>
>> Bertil- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> The other day I tried to e-mail my son but it was undelivered twice
> because of typos.

Unsurprising.

> So why would I try to retype the website given, that is much more
> complicated.

Yes, pressing the backspace key once is hard work.

> It's up to the poster to correct his typos.
> I trusted the ACBL Editors with regard to Ira Corn. So why is there an
> argument?

There is no argument; merely laughter.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 3:37 pm
From: Martin Ambuhl

On 11/27/2011 7:48 AM, Bertil wrote:

>
> Lacking your vast experience and know how of other systems I'm unable
> to comment on your post.
> But I would like to ask why you made no mentioning of other LTC
> counts, such as the New LTC from
> an article in BW in 2003 by Koelman. It's based on counting half
> losers for missing honors.
> Specifically it counts 3 for the A, 2 for the K and 1 for the Q, for a
> total of 6 halves or 3 losers.

This is nothing more than including controls. It gives you the first 3
steps of the 4 Aces count (for non-losers), as Kaplan remarked in the 4C
article. Add in Work HCP, and you have the Vienna (Bamberger) count:

(1) (2) (1)+(2) (3) (1)+(2)+(3)
Non-losers Controls 4 Aces' HCP Vienna
A 1 2 3 4 7
non-losing K 1 1 2 3 5
non-losing Q 1 0 1 2 3
J 0 0 0 1 1

Now, what do you do with losing Ks and Qs or with Js. There is always
someone ready to claim an old idea as his very own, brand new,
revolutionary contribution.

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:48 am
From: boblipton

On Nov 26, 12:20 pm, Reint <ostend...@kvi.nl> wrote:
> In our latest team match I caused us to miss a (vulnerable) slam. The
> hand I had was:
>
> 9
> J7
> KJT864
> AJT4
>
> opposite my partner's hand:
>
> AKQ3
> A964
> A5
> Q87
>
> My partner was dealer and our auction was:
>
> 1C - 1D
> 2NT - 3NT
>
> Obviously 3NT is a poor choice. I realized that a slam could be on and
> another lively possibility is that 3NT even goes down where 5-minor or
> 6-minor would make. It might even have been a grand, opposite the
> likes of Ax,AJx,Ax,KQxxx 7C has excellent chances.
> I thought of bidding 4D but the problem was that I didn't know how the
> auction should continue further, hence my 3NT hoping that it would be
> made without missing a slam.
> My two questions are:
>
> - what would be your choice and how to investigate whether it should
> be diamonds or clubs?
>
> - should 4D be seen as a slam try, where cue bidding (4H,4S) would
> show acceptance and 4NT a sign-off or
> should 4D be stronger with cue bidding obligatory?

Before commenting usefully on the auction. one must infer certain
things about your bidding; first, that your are not playing a strong
club system, and that 1D seems to deny a major. I don't like it at
all. You cannot treat diamonds with contempt (nothing useful to say,
partner!) and then expect to find the slam in the contemptible strain
when it suits you.

There is no need to have abstract understandings. Had opener taken the
old-fashioned approach, that 1D was an attempt to find the right
strain and rebid 1H, the results might have been better. Responder
might have rebid 3D or 3C (a tad pushy with all those quacks) and
opener might have had an ahah moment.

In the end, however, I find something a bit result-merchantish about
the results. Make opener's hand AQJ AKxx Ax Qxx, and 6D is not so
pretty.

Bob

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 6:40 am
From: Dave Flower

On Nov 26, 5:20 pm, Reint <ostend...@kvi.nl> wrote:
> In our latest team match I caused us to miss a (vulnerable) slam. The
> hand I had was:
>
> 9
> J7
> KJT864
> AJT4
>
> opposite my partner's hand:
>
> AKQ3
> A964
> A5
> Q87
>
> My partner was dealer and our auction was:
>
> 1C - 1D
> 2NT - 3NT
>
> Obviously 3NT is a poor choice. I realized that a slam could be on and
> another lively possibility is that 3NT even goes down where 5-minor or
> 6-minor would make. It might even have been a grand, opposite the
> likes of Ax,AJx,Ax,KQxxx 7C has excellent chances.
> I thought of bidding 4D but the problem was that I didn't know how the
> auction should continue further, hence my 3NT hoping that it would be
> made without missing a slam.
> My two questions are:
>
> - what would be your choice and how to investigate whether it should
> be diamonds or clubs?
>
> - should 4D be seen as a slam try, where cue bidding (4H,4S) would
> show acceptance and 4NT a sign-off or
> should 4D be stronger with cue bidding obligatory?
>
> thanks,
> Reint.

I think that 6D is odds-on, but perhaps not by a lot.

On a heart lead, the percentage play may well be, HA, DA, DK, SAKQ
discarding a heart and a club. Run the CQ.

Any comments ?

Dave Flower

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 6:59 am
From: Co Wiersma

Op 27-11-2011 13:48, boblipton schreef:
> and that 1D seems to deny a major

where you see that?

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 12:38 pm
From: jogs

On Nov 27, 6:40 am, Dave Flower <DavJFlo...@BTINTERNET.COM> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 5:20 pm, Reint <ostend...@kvi.nl> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In our latest team match I caused us to miss a (vulnerable) slam. The
> > hand I had was:
>
> > 9
> > J7
> > KJT864
> > AJT4
>
> > opposite my partner's hand:
>
> > AKQ3
> > A964
> > A5
> > Q87
>
> > My partner was dealer and our auction was:
>
> > 1C - 1D
> > 2NT - 3NT
>
> > Obviously 3NT is a poor choice. I realized that a slam could be on and
> > another lively possibility is that 3NT even goes down where 5-minor or
> > 6-minor would make. It might even have been a grand, opposite the
> > likes of Ax,AJx,Ax,KQxxx 7C has excellent chances.
> > I thought of bidding 4D but the problem was that I didn't know how the
> > auction should continue further, hence my 3NT hoping that it would be
> > made without missing a slam.
> > My two questions are:
>
> > - what would be your choice and how to investigate whether it should
> > be diamonds or clubs?
>
> > - should 4D be seen as a slam try, where cue bidding (4H,4S) would
> > show acceptance and 4NT a sign-off or
> > should 4D be stronger with cue bidding obligatory?
>
> > thanks,
> > Reint.
>
> I think that 6D is odds-on, but perhaps not by a lot.
>
> On a heart lead, the percentage play may well be, HA, DA, DK, SAKQ
> discarding a heart and a club. Run the CQ.
>
> Any comments ?
>
> Dave Flower

Depends on the defending skills of opponents.
Let's say diamonds split 3-2. After DA, DK only
a small diamond remains. CQ holds. Small club
to ten. Loses to club king. Club back ruffed for
down one.
So what's the percentage of this line?

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 1:10 pm
From: Dave Flower

On Nov 27, 8:38 pm, jogs <vspo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 6:40 am, Dave Flower <DavJFlo...@BTINTERNET.COM> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 26, 5:20 pm, Reint <ostend...@kvi.nl> wrote:
>
> > > In our latest team match I caused us to miss a (vulnerable) slam. The
> > > hand I had was:
>
> > > 9
> > > J7
> > > KJT864
> > > AJT4
>
> > > opposite my partner's hand:
>
> > > AKQ3
> > > A964
> > > A5
> > > Q87
>
> > > My partner was dealer and our auction was:
>
> > > 1C - 1D
> > > 2NT - 3NT
>
> > > Obviously 3NT is a poor choice. I realized that a slam could be on and
> > > another lively possibility is that 3NT even goes down where 5-minor or
> > > 6-minor would make. It might even have been a grand, opposite the
> > > likes of Ax,AJx,Ax,KQxxx 7C has excellent chances.
> > > I thought of bidding 4D but the problem was that I didn't know how the
> > > auction should continue further, hence my 3NT hoping that it would be
> > > made without missing a slam.
> > > My two questions are:
>
> > > - what would be your choice and how to investigate whether it should
> > > be diamonds or clubs?
>
> > > - should 4D be seen as a slam try, where cue bidding (4H,4S) would
> > > show acceptance and 4NT a sign-off or
> > > should 4D be stronger with cue bidding obligatory?
>
> > > thanks,
> > > Reint.
>
> > I think that 6D is odds-on, but perhaps not by a lot.
>
> > On a heart lead, the percentage play may well be, HA, DA, DK, SAKQ
> > discarding a heart and a club. Run the CQ.
>
> > Any comments ?
>
> > Dave Flower
>
> Depends on the defending skills of opponents.
> Let's say diamonds split 3-2. After DA, DK only
> a small diamond remains. CQ holds. Small club
> to ten. Loses to club king. Club back ruffed for
> down one.
> So what's the percentage of this line?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, I assumed that the DQ remained out; obviously if it drops trumps
are drawn. Not if declarer erroneously plays DK, DA, then two rounds
of spades (heart discard), ruff a heart high, draw the last trump and
concede a club.

But DA first means that declarer still has a chance if the diamonds
are 5-0

Dave Flower

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 5:33 am
From: "Bud Hinckley"

The form of 3C Puppet Stayman used over 1NT opening bids described by Justin
Lall (and congrats to him for winning the Nail Life Master Pairs in Seattle
yesterday) at

http://justinlall.com/2011/09/07/puppet-stayman-after-a-1n-opener/

which he credits learning from Joe Grue does a great job of hiding
information from the defenders by not giving away needless information about
the 1NT opener's hand when responder has a game forcing hand with minimal
slam interest.

The major features of this form of 3C Puppet Stayman over 1NT are:

1. Opener can only bid 3D (denying a 5-card major) or 3 of a major showing
a 5-card suit. 3NT is NOT an allowed response.

2. Responder uses 3C Puppet Stayman with ONE 4-card major. Responder uses
regular 2C Stayman with TWO 4-card majors.

One question asked about this method is how you find your 8-card fits when
responder is 3-5 (3 spades, 5 hearts) or 5-3 (5 spades, 3 hearts).

I have invented a solution to this problem thanks to the use of this form of
3C Puppet Stayman that Justin has described. An additional benefit is that
the 1NT opening bidder will be declarer in all cases.

The two auctions 1NT-2C-2H-3NT and 1NT-2C-2S-3NT cannot theoretically occur
because responder would have bid 3C Puppet Stayman with a single 4-card
major. We can use these two auctions artificially to show 3-card support
for opener's major with 5 cards in the other major.

But what if opener bids 2D denying a major? Then you fake a Smolen bid,
jumping to 3 of your 3-card major, and in the process showing five cards in
the other major, which is the only suit at that point in which you can have
an 8-card fit.

In summary,

1. With 3-5 in the majors, use regular 2C Stayman and here are your three
auctions:

(a) 1NT-2C-2D-3S (shows five hearts via fake Smolen)
(b) 1NT-2C-2H-4H
(c) 1NT-2C-2S-3NT (choice of games with 3-5 majors)

2. With 5-3 in the majors, you use regular 2C Stayman and here are your
three auctions:

(a) 1NT-2C-2D-3H (shows five spades via fake Smolen)
(b) 1NT-2C-2H-3NT (choice of games with 5-3 majors)
(c) 1NT-2C-2S-4S

Here is a table of the responses I have constructed for several major suit
distributions held by responder when he holds a game forcing hand without
slam interest after partner opens 1NT:

One or two 3-card majors

3C, then raise opener's 5-card major to game or over 3D bid 3NT

One 4-card major (possibly with a 3-card major)

3C, then over 3D bid the 4-card major you do NOT hold

3-5 or 5-3 majors

2C - 2D - 3 of your 3-card major (faking Smolen to show your 5-card
major)
2C - 2 of your 3-card major - 3NT (artificial) showing the 3-5 or 5-3
majors
2C - 2 of your 5-card major - 4 of the major

4-4 majors

2C, then raise opener's major to game or bid 3NT

4-5 or 5-4 majors

2C, then Smolen over 2D or raise opener's major to game

4-6 or 6-4 majors

2C Stayman, then raise opener's major to game or over 2D use delayed
Texas; or use Texas directly and give up on the possible fit in the other
major

5-5 majors

Transfer to 2S and bid 3H; OR
Use 3D, 3H, or 3S to show a 5-5 majors game force

You can also show hands with some slam interest that are 5332 type shape
with a long minor and also 4432 type shapes with one 4-card major and one
4-card minor by first starting with 3C Puppet Stayman. You can learn more
about those at the end of Justin's description of the convention.

Bud Hinckley
budh9534@gmail.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:19 pm
From: shuster

You are way overthinking/complicating it. Without going into the
various drawbacks of this, I have an more simple alternative. If you
are so terrified of missing 5-3 major fits after opening 1NT, try
opening 1 of the major instead.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Suggest a sequence
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.bridge/t/1f0127aa3a8082d2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:23 pm
From: Steve Willner

On 11/20/2011 9:30 PM, Steve Willner wrote:
> AKx AQx AKJ9x Kx opposite xxx KJTxxx ? Axx
> West is dealer, and South will overcall 1S or 2S if possible.

Thanks for all comments. At the table, East did hold D-Q, and we bid to
7H as follows:
1C!-1H-(1S) : Polish (multiway) 1C; natural 1H
2D -2H : 18+ HCP, 5+D; 5+H
3H -4C : exactly 3c heart support; C-control (1st or 2nd round)
4NT-5H
7H -P

East knew D-Q was a good card, but was it enough to justify bidding 7NT
after West has taken control? The result was still a 10-imp pickup
against 6NT at the other table (in a match we won easily -- our
teammates were terrific!), but it seems to me it should have been 11.
Our first two rounds of bidding were so promising: already in a GF at 2H
with both of us knowing each other's suit. We just couldn't manage the
later rounds.

Anyway, I very much appreciate all the comments and would be glad to see
more. Perhaps the most practical suggestion was from Frances: have 6D
after Blackwood ask about diamond honors. Is that popular?

As a side comment, I was surprised at people who think East should bid
5S in response to Blackwood. I'd expect a seventh heart for that, even
in the sequences that start with strong 2C.

--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swillner@nhcc.net
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:37 pm
From: Steve Willner

> It goes P P and RHO bids 2D. What now?

> If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?

--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swillner@nhcc.net
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA

==============================================================================

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alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

2011-11-27T15:31:00.000-08:00

alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim?hl=en

alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Updated List 2012 Solutions Manuals, Instructor Manuals & Test Banks
Collection. Largest Collection Over The Net !!! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/c3fd2a53f8831c2d?hl=en
* OMGWTF!!! X-Plane 10 demo is out! - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/19a7aa441597aadd?hl=en
* What's the deal with SID's and STAR's? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/ef6fb5c974c454e9?hl=en
* Just Flight B757 Freemium - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/a422938e4ca95fff?hl=en
* Atlanta SID and STARS - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/16c66c99f40aa2e8?hl=en
* Handy Link with some aviation stuff - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/bfca03b70e165f50?hl=en
* Seven Seas Deluxe - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/dba2756dfe723cab?hl=en
* new computer - 7 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/566fe59fccab0139?hl=en
* Which one? - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/9bde62a6d97d6eff?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Updated List 2012 Solutions Manuals, Instructor Manuals & Test Banks
Collection. Largest Collection Over The Net !!!
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/c3fd2a53f8831c2d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 12:21 am
From: tb work

Hello,

We would like to inform you that we have updated our list with the
following new titles.

You can contact us directly at tbwork.ads(at)gmail.com .

================

2011 Federal Taxation, 5th Edition 2011, Pratt, Kulsrud, Instructor
Manual & Solutions Manual

2011 Federal Taxation, 5th Edition 2011, Pratt, Kulsrud, Test Bank

A Concise Introduction to Logic, 11th Edition 2012, Hurley, Test Bank

A History of Modern Psychology, 10th Edition 2012, Schultz, Schultz,
Instructor Manual

A History of Modern Psychology, 10th Edition 2012, Schultz, Schultz,
Test Bank

A History of Modern Psychology, 9th Edition, Schultz, Schultz, Test
Bank

Abnormal Psychology: An Integrative Approach, 6th Edition 2012,
Barlow, Durand, Instructor Manual

Abnormal Psychology: An Integrative Approach, 6th Edition 2012,
Barlow, Durand, Test Bank

Accounting Information Systems, 7th Edition, James Hall, Solutions
Manual

Accounting Using Excelr for Success, 2nd Edition 2012, Reeve, Warren,
Duchac, Solutions Manual

Accounting, 24th Edition 2012, Warren, Reeve, Duchac, Instructor
Manual & Solutions Manual

Accounting, 24th Edition 2012, Warren, Reeve, Duchac, Test Bank

Adober Photoshopr CS5 Revealed, 1st Edition 2011, Elizabeth Eisner
Reding, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Adober Photoshopr CS5 Revealed, 1st Edition 2011, Elizabeth Eisner
Reding, Test Bank

Advertising and Integrated Brand Promotion, 6th Edition 2012, O'Guinn,
Allen, Semenik, Instructor Manual

Advertising and Integrated Brand Promotion, 6th Edition 2012, O'Guinn,
Allen, Semenik, Test Bank

American Constitutional Law: Sources of Power and Restraint, Volume I,
5th Edition 2012, Stephens, Scheb, Instructor Manual

American Government and Politics Today 2011-2012 Edition, 15th Edition
2012, Schmidt, Shelley, Barbara, Bardes, Ford, Test Bank

American Government and Politics Today: Essentials 2011 - 2012
Edition, 16th Edition 2012, Bardes, Shelley, Schmidt, Instructor
Manual

American Government and Politics Today, Texas Edition, 2009-2010, 14th
Edition, Schmidt, Shelley, Bardes, Maxwell, Crain, Santos, Test Bank

American Government and Politics Today, Texas Edition, 2011-2012, 15th
Edition 2012, Schmidt, Shelley, Bardes, Ford, Maxwell, Crain, Santos,
Test Bank

American Public Policy: An Introduction, 10th Edition 2012, Cochran,
Mayer, Cayer, McKenzie, Peck, Instructor Manual

American Public Policy: An Introduction, 10th Edition 2012, Cochran,
Mayer, Cayer, McKenzie, Peck, Test Bank

An Invitation to Health: Choosing to Change, Brief Edition, 7th
Edition 2012, Dianne Hales, Instructor Manual

An Invitation to Health: Choosing to Change, Brief Edition, 7th
Edition 2012, Dianne Hales, Test Bank

Applied Business Ethics: A Skills-Based Approach, 1st Edition 2012,
Dean Bredeson, Instructor Manual

Applied Statistics for Public and Nonprofit Administration, 8th
Edition 2012, Meier, Brudney, Bohte, Instructor Manual

Applying Career Development Theory to Counseling, 5th Edition, Sharf,
Instructor Manual

Applying Career Development Theory to Counseling, 5th Edition, Sharf,
Test Bank

Basic Finance: An Introduction to Financial Institutions, Investments
and Management, 10th Edition 2012, Mayo, Instructor Manual

Basic Finance: An Introduction to Financial Institutions, Investments
and Management, 10th Edition 2012, Mayo, Test Bank

BCOM, 3rd Edition 2012, Lehman, DuFrene, Instructor Manual & Solutions
Manual

BCOM, 3rd Edition 2012, Lehman, DuFrene, Test Bank

Becoming a Critical Thinker, 7th Edition 2012, Vincent Ryan Ruggiero,
Instructor Manual

Brief Principles of Macroeconomics, 6th Edition 2012, Gregory Mankiw,
Instructor Manual

Brief Principles of Macroeconomics, 6th Edition 2012, Gregory Mankiw,
Test Bank

Business Ethics: Case Studies and Selected Readings, 7th Edition 2012,
Jennings, Instructor Manual

Business Ethics: Case Studies and Selected Readings, 7th Edition 2012,
Jennings, Test Bank

Business Law Today: Comprehensive, 9th Edition 2012, Miller, Jentz,
Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Business Law Today: Comprehensive, 9th Edition 2012, Miller, Jentz,
Test Bank

Business Law: Text and Cases: Legal, Ethical, Global, and Corporate
Environment, 12th Edition 2012, Clarkson, Miller, Cross, Instructor
Manual & Solutions Manual

Business Law: Text and Cases: Legal, Ethical, Global, and Corporate
Environment, 12th Edition 2012, Clarkson, Miller, Cross, Test Bank

Business Math Using Excelr, 2nd Edition 2012, Burton, Shelton, Test
Bank

Business, 11th Edition 2012, Pride, Hughes, Kapoor, Instructor Manual

Business, 11th Edition 2012, Pride, Hughes, Kapoor, Test Bank

Business: Its Legal, Ethical, and Global Environment, 9th Edition
2012, Jennings, Instructor Manual

Business: Its Legal, Ethical, and Global Environment, 9th Edition
2012, Jennings, Test Bank

BUSN 4, 4th Edition 2012, Kelly, McGowen, Instructor Manual &
Solutions Manual

BUSN 4, 4th Edition 2012, Kelly, McGowen, Test Bank

C# Programming: From Problem Analysis to Program Design, 3rd Edition
2011, Barbara Doyle, Test Bank

Career Counseling: A Holistic Approach, 7th Edition, Zunker,
Instructor Manual

Career Counseling: A Holistic Approach, 7th Edition, Zunker, Test Bank

Career Counseling: A Holistic Approach, 8th Edition 2012, Zunker,
Instructor Manual

Career Counseling: A Holistic Approach, 8th Edition 2012, Zunker, Test
Bank

Caring for School-Age Children, 6th Edition 2012, Click, Parker,
Instructor Manual

CB3, 3rd Edition 2012, Babin, Harris, Instructor Manual

CB3, 3rd Edition 2012, Babin, Harris, Test Bank

CDN ED Principles of Macroeconomics, 5th Edition 2011, Mankiw,
Kneebone, McKenzie, Instructor Manual

CDN ED Principles of Macroeconomics, 5th Edition 2011, Mankiw,
Kneebone, McKenzie, Test Bank

CDN ED Sociology in Our Times: The Essentials, 5th Edition, Murray,
Linden, Kendall, Test Bank

Cengage Advantage Books: Analyzing Politics, 5th Edition 2012, Ellen
Grigsby, Instructor Manual

Cengage Advantage Books: Analyzing Politics, 5th Edition 2012, Ellen
Grigsby, Test Bank

Cengage Advantage Books: Culture Counts: A Concise Introduction to
Cultural Anthropology, 2nd Edition 2012, Nanda, Warms, Instructor
Manual

Cengage Advantage Books: Culture Counts: A Concise Introduction to
Cultural Anthropology, 2nd Edition 2012, Nanda, Warms, Test Bank

Cengage Advantage Books: Essentials of Business Law, 4th Edition 2012,
Beatty, Samuelson, Instructor Manual

Cengage Advantage Books: Essentials of Business Law, 4th Edition 2012,
Beatty, Samuelson, Test Bank

Cengage Advantage Books: Essentials of Public Speaking, 4th Edition,
Cheryl Hamilton, Instructor Manual

Cengage Advantage Books: Essentials of Public Speaking, 4th Edition,
Cheryl Hamilton, Test Bank

Cengage Advantage Books: Introduction to Sociology, 10th Edition 2011,
Tischler, Instructor Manual

Cengage Advantage Books: Introduction to Sociology, 10th Edition 2011,
Tischler, Test Bank

Cengage Advantage Books: Modern Principles of Business Law, 1st
Edition 2012, Roger LeRoy Miller, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Cengage Advantage Books: Modern Principles of Business Law, 1st
Edition 2012, Roger LeRoy Miller, Test Bank

Cengage Advantage Books: The Enduring Vision, Volume I, 7th Edition
2012, Boyer, Clark, Halttunen, Kett, Salisbury, Sitkoff, Woloch,
Instructor Manual

Cengage Advantage Books: The Enduring Vision, Volume I, 7th Edition
2012, Boyer, Clark, Halttunen, Kett, Salisbury, Sitkoff, Woloch, Test
Bank

Cengage Advantage Books: The Enduring Vision, Volume II, 7th Edition
2012, Boyer, Clark, Halttunen, Kett, Salisbury, Sitkoff, Woloch,
Instructor Manual

Cengage Advantage Books: The Enduring Vision, Volume II, 7th Edition
2012, Boyer, Clark, Halttunen, Kett, Salisbury, Sitkoff, Woloch, Test
Bank

Cengage Advantage Books: Understanding Arguments: An Introduction to
Informal Logic, 8th Edition, Sinnott-Armstrong, Fogelin, Instructor
Manual

CFIN 2010, 1st Edition, Besley, Brigham, Instructor Manual

CFIN2, 2nd Edition 2012, Besley, Brigham, Solutions Manual

Children's Thinking, 5th Edition 2012, Bjorklund, Instructor Manual

Children's Thinking, 5th Edition 2012, Bjorklund, Test Bank

CMPTR, 1st Edition 2012, Pinard, Romer, Instructor Manual & Solutions
Manual

CMPTR, 1st Edition 2012, Pinard, Romer, Test Bank

Cognitive Psychology In and Out of the Laboratory, 4th Edition,
Shelly, Sebok, Test Bank

Cognitive Psychology, 5th Edition, Sternberg, Test Bank

Cognitive Psychology, 6th Edition 2012, Sternberg, Solutions Manual

Cognitive Psychology, 6th Edition 2012, Sternberg, Test Bank

Cognitive Psychology: Connecting Mind, Research and Everyday
Experience, 2nd Edition, Bruce Goldstein, Test Bank

COMM 2, 2nd Edition 2012, Verderber, Verderber, Sellnow, Instructor
Manual

COMM, 1st Edition, Verderber, Verderber, Sellnow, Instructor Manual

COMM, 1st Edition, Verderber, Verderber, Sellnow, Test Bank

Commercial Real Estate Analysis and Investments, 2nd Edition, Geltner,
Miller, Clayton, Eichholtz, Test Bank

Communicating in Groups and Teams: Sharing Leadership, 5th Edition,
Lumsden, Lumsden, Wiethoff, Instructor Manual

Communicating in Groups and Teams: Sharing Leadership, 5th Edition,
Lumsden, Lumsden, Wiethoff, Test Bank

Concepts in Federal Taxation 2012, 19th Edition 2012, Murphy, Higgins,
Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Concepts in Federal Taxation 2012, 19th Edition 2012, Murphy, Higgins,
Test Bank

Conducting Research in Psychology: Measuring the Weight of Smoke, 3rd
Edition, Pelham, Blanton, Test Bank

Contemporary Financial Management, 12th Edition 2012, Moyer, McGuigan,
Rao, Kretlow, Instructor Manual

Contemporary Financial Management, 12th Edition 2012, Moyer, McGuigan,
Rao, Kretlow, Test Bank

Contemporary Marketing, 15th Edition 2012, Boone, Kurtz, Instructor
Manual

Contemporary Marketing, 15th Edition 2012, Boone, Kurtz, Test Bank

Contemporary Mathematics for Business and Consumers, 6th Edition 2012,
Robert Brechner, Test Bank

Contemporary Medical-Surgical Nursing, 2nd Edition 2012, Daniels,
Nicoll, Instructor Manual

Contemporary Medical-Surgical Nursing, 2nd Edition 2012, Daniels,
Nicoll, Test Bank

Contemporary Project Management, 2nd Edition 2012, Timothy
Kloppenborg, Instructor Manual

Contemporary Project Management, 2nd Edition 2012, Timothy
Kloppenborg, Test Bank

Cornerstones of Financial Accounting, 2nd Edition 2012, Rich, Jones,
Mowen, Hansen, Solutions Manual

Cornerstones of Financial Accounting, 2nd Edition 2012, Rich, Jones,
Mowen, Hansen, Test Bank

Cornerstones of Financial and Managerial Accounting, 2nd Edition 2012,
Rich, Jones, Heitger, Mowen, Hansen, Solutions Manual

Cornerstones of Managerial Accounting, 4th Edition 2012, Mowen,
Hansen, Heitger, Solutions Manual

Cornerstones of Managerial Accounting, 4th Edition 2012, Mowen,
Hansen, Heitger, Test Bank

Corporate Financial Accounting, 11th Edition 2012, Warren, Reeve,
Duchac, Solutions Manual

Counseling Children, 8th Edition 2011, Henderson, Thompson, Test Bank

Crime Victims: An Introduction to Victimology, 7th Edition, Andrew
Karmen, Instructor Manual

Criminal Justice Organizations: Administration and Management, 5th
Edition 2012, Stojkovic, Kalinich, Klofas, Instructor Manual

Criminal Justice Organizations: Administration and Management, 5th
Edition 2012, Stojkovic, Kalinich, Klofas, Test Bank

Critical Thinking, Thoughtful Writing, 5th Edition 2012, Chaffee,
McMahon, Stout, Instructor Manual

Culture and Psychology, 4th Edition, Matsumoto, Juang, Instructor
Manual

Culture and Psychology, 4th Edition, Matsumoto, Juang, Test Bank

CyberLaw: Text and Cases, 3rd Edition 2012, Ferrera, Reder,
Lichtenstein, Bird, Darrow, Aresty, Klosek, Solutions Manual

Data Analysis and Decision Making, 4th Edition, Albright, Winston,
Zappe, Test Bank

Data Structures Using Java, 1st Edition, Malik, Instructor Manual &
Solutions Manual

Data Structures Using Java, 1st Edition, Malik, Test Bank

Developmental Psychology: Childhood and Adolescence, 8th Edition,
Shaffer, Kipp, Instructor Manual

Developmental Psychology: Childhood and Adolescence, 8th Edition,
Shaffer, Kipp, Test Bank

Discovering the American Past: A Look at the Evidence, Volume II:
Since 1865, 7th Edition 2012, Wheeler, Becker, Glover, Instructor
Manual

Discrete Mathematics with Applications, 4th Edition 2011, Epp,
Instructor Manual

Discrete Mathematics with Applications, 4th Edition 2011, Epp, Test
Bank

Earth Science and the Environment, 4th Edition, Thompson, Turk,
Instructor Manual

Earth Science and the Environment, 4th Edition, Thompson, Turk, Test
Bank

EARTH, 1st Edition 2011, Thompson, Turk, Instructor Manual

EARTH, 1st Edition 2011, Thompson, Turk, Test Bank

Economics for Managers, Edition, 12th Edition, McGuigan, Moyer,
Harris, Instructor Manual

Economics for Managers, Edition, 12th Edition, McGuigan, Moyer,
Harris, Test Bank

Economics for Today, 7th Edition 2011, Tucker, Instructor Manual

Economics for Today, 7th Edition 2011, Tucker, Test Bank

Economics: A Contemporary Introduction, 9th Edition 2012, McEachern,
Test Bank

Educating Exceptional Children, 13th Edition 2012, Kirk, Gallagher,
Coleman, Anastasiow, Instructor Manual

Educating Exceptional Children, 13th Edition 2012, Kirk, Gallagher,
Coleman, Anastasiow, Test Bank

Effective Management, 5th Edition 2012, Chuck Williams, Instructor
Manual

Effective Management, 5th Edition 2012, Chuck Williams, Test Bank

Essentials of Business Communication, 8th Edition 2010, Mary Ellen
Guffey, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Essentials of Business Communication, 8th Edition 2010, Mary Ellen
Guffey, Test Bank

Essentials of Corrections, 4th Edition, Mays, Winfree, Instructor
Manual

Essentials of Corrections, 4th Edition, Mays, Winfree, Test Bank

Essentials of Economics, 6th Edition 2012, Gregory Mankiw, Test Bank

Essentials of Management, 9th Edition 2012, DuBrin, Instructor Manual

Essentials of Management, 9th Edition 2012, DuBrin, Test Bank

Essentials of Marketing, 7th Edition 2012, Lamb, Hair, McDaniel,
Instructor Manual

Essentials of Marketing, 7th Edition 2012, Lamb, Hair, McDaniel, Test
Bank

Essentials of Statistics for Business and Economics, 6th Edition 2012,
Anderson, Sweeney, Williams, Solutions Manual

Essentials of Statistics for Business and Economics, 6th Edition 2012,
Anderson, Sweeney, Williams, Test Bank

Ethical Decision Making for Business, 8th Edition 2011, Fraedrich,
Ferrell, Ferrell, Instructor Manual

Ethical Decision Making for Business, 8th Edition 2011, Fraedrich,
Ferrell, Ferrell, Test Bank

Evergreen: A Guide to Writing with Readings, 9th Edition 2011, Susan
Fawcett, Instructor Manual

Evergreen: A Guide to Writing with Readings, 9th Edition 2011, Susan
Fawcett, Test Bank

Excel Applications for Accounting Principles, 4th Edition 2012, Smith,
Instructor Manual

Excel Quick, 4th Edition 2012, Smith, Instructor Manual

Federal Tax Research, 9th Edition 2012, Raabe, Whittenburg, Sanders,
Sawyers, Gill, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Federal Tax Research, 9th Edition 2012, Raabe, Whittenburg, Sanders,
Sawyers, Gill, Test Bank

Financial & Managerial Accounting, 11th Edition 2012, Warren, Reeve,
Duchac, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Financial & Managerial Accounting, 11th Edition 2012, Warren, Reeve,
Duchac, Test Bank

Financial Accounting, 11th Edition 2012, Needles, Powers, Instructor
Manual & Solutions Manual

Financial Accounting, 12th Edition 2012, Warren, Reeve, Duchac,
Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Financial Management: A Practical Approach, 6th Edition 2011, Lasher,
Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Financial Management: A Practical Approach, 6th Edition 2011, Lasher,
Test Bank

Financial Markets and Institutions, Abridged Edition, 9th Edition,
Jeff Madura, Instructor Manual

Financial Markets and Institutions, Abridged Edition, 9th Edition,
Jeff Madura, Test Bank

Fraud Examination, 4th Edition, Albrecht, Albrecht, Albrecht,
Zimbelman, Solutions Manual

Fraud Examination, 4th Edition, Albrecht, Albrecht, Albrecht,
Zimbelman, Test Bank

Fundamentals of Economics, 5th Edition 2012, Boyes, Melvin, Instructor
Manual

Fundamentals of Financial Management, Concise Edition, 7th Edition
2012, Brigham, Houston, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Fundamentals of Financial Management, Concise Edition, 7th Edition
2012, Brigham, Houston, Test Bank

Fundamentals of Human Physiology, 4th Edition 2012, Lauralee Sherwood,
Instructor Manual

Fundamentals of Human Physiology, 4th Edition 2012, Lauralee Sherwood,
Test Bank

Fundamentals of Information Systems, 6th Edition 2012, Stair,
Reynolds, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Fundamentals of Information Systems, 6th Edition 2012, Stair,
Reynolds, Test Bank

Fundamentals of Management, 6th Edition 2012, Griffin, Instructor
Manual

Fundamentals of Management, 6th Edition 2012, Griffin, Test Bank

Fundamentals of Python: First Programs, 1st Edition 2012, Lambert,
Solutions Manual

Gardner's Art through the Ages: The Western Perspective, 13th Edition,
Kleiner, Instructor Manual

Gardner's Art through the Ages: The Western Perspective, 13th Edition,
Kleiner, Test Bank

Gateways to Democracy: Introduction to American Government, 1st
Edition 2012, Geer, Schiller, Segal, Instructor Manual

Global Economics, 13th Edition 2011, Robert Carbaugh, Instructor
Manual

Global Economics, 13th Edition 2011, Robert Carbaugh, Test Bank

Growing Up with Literature, 6th Edition 2012, Walter Sawyer,
Instructor Manual

Guide to Computer Forensics and Investigations, 3rd Edition, Nelson,
Phillips, Enfinger, Steuart, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Guide to Computer Forensics and Investigations, 3rd Edition, Nelson,
Phillips, Enfinger, Steuart, Test Bank

Guide to Parallel Operating Systems with Windowsr 7 and Linux, 2nd
Edition 2012, Carswell, Jiang, Freese, Instructor Manual & Solutions
Manual

Guiding Children's Social Development and Learning, 7th Edition 2012,
Kostelnik, Gregory, Soderman, Whiren, Instructor Manual

Guiding Children's Social Development and Learning, 7th Edition 2012,
Kostelnik, Gregory, Soderman, Whiren, Test Bank

HDEV, 2nd Edition 2012, Rathus, Instructor Manual

HDEV, 2nd Edition 2012, Rathus, Test Bank

Historical Geology, 6th Edition, Wicander, Monroe, Instructor Manual

Historical Geology, 6th Edition, Wicander, Monroe, Test Bank

HR, 1st Edition 2012, DeNisi, Griffin, Instructor Manual

HR, 1st Edition 2012, DeNisi, Griffin, Test Bank

HTML, XHTML, and CSS: Comprehensive, 6th Edition 2011, Shelly, Woods,
Dorin, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

HTML, XHTML, and CSS: Comprehensive, 6th Edition 2011, Shelly, Woods,
Dorin, Test Bank

Human Resource Management, 13th Edition 2011, Mathis, Jackson,
Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Human Resource Management, 13th Edition 2011, Mathis, Jackson, Test
Bank

Human Resource Management: Managerial Tool for Competitive Advantage,
5th Edition, Lawrence Kleiman, Instructor Manual

Human Resource Management: Managerial Tool for Competitive Advantage,
5th Edition, Lawrence Kleiman, Test Bank

Human Resource Management: Strategy and Practice, 7th Edition 2011,
Nankervis, Compton, Baird, Coffey, Instructor Manual

Human Resource Management: Strategy and Practice, 7th Edition 2011,
Nankervis, Compton, Baird, Coffey, Test Bank

Humanity: An Introduction to Cultural Anthropology, 9th Edition 2012,
Peoples, Bailey, Instructor Manual

Humanity: An Introduction to Cultural Anthropology, 9th Edition 2012,
Peoples, Bailey, Test Bank

Illustrated Course Guide: Microsoft Access 2010 Advanced, 1st Edition
2012, Lisa Friedrichsen, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Illustrated Course Guide: Microsoft Powerpointr 2010 Advanced, 1st
Edition 2012, David Beskeen, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Illustrated Course Guide: Microsoftr Excel 2010 Advanced, 1st Edition
2012, Lynn Wermers, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

Illustrated Course Guide: Microsoftr Word 2010 Advanced, 1st Edition
2012, Carol Cram, Instructor Manual & Solutions Manual

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=========

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 12:29 am
From: Osbert Whittlebot

On 27/11/11 00:26, NM5K wrote:
> On 11/26/2011 6:02 AM, Osbert Whittlebot wrote:
>
>>
>> The only point of dissent is with your choice of 'good' FSX planes, all
>> seems bit thuggish. But have you tried Anthony Lynch's Tiger Moth (Ant's
>> Moth from AVSIM). It is beautiful, beyond words, and flies, errr .....
>> just like the real thing being 'easy to fly but a b*gger to master'.
>>
>> Osbert (etc, etc)
>
> I'm talking about planes that are very close to the real deal,
> right down to every switch, quirk, and behavior pattern..
> There are not a whole lot out there that you can say that about.
> Or at least with the degree of fidelity as the ones I mentioned.
> In general, with most complicated aircraft, if the average simmer
> can fly one right off the bat, something ain't right... :/
> It's like the choppers in FSX. They aren't very realistic..
> Why do I say this? Cuz I can fly one well enough to get around..
> No way I could do that in the real world.. :(
> Take the WW2 fighters that have been mentioned.. I'd have to do
> a crash course on the systems to be able to fly it and not
> ruinate the thing in about 8 minutes due to a fried engine, etc..
> And that's the way it should be I think.
> With the 737 I run, the average FSX simmer used to the stock
> 737NG would get in the cockpit and have severe problems trying
> to fly it without a crash course on the systems.
> It's that different.. Not much works the same as the stock FSX 737,
> which is basically so lame I call it the Fisher Price version. :|
> And the stock FSX Learjet has the same problem.. I want a PMDG
> Lear. :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
D'accord. Hence my recommendation, to all simmers, of Ant's Moth.

Heavy metal? Exec. Jets? etc - I can't do them, because I haven't done
the ground schools in their systems; nor flying school in the duties,
responsibilities and disciplines of operating them. If ever I sim
Jetwork its only to reccy real passenger flights I am booked on.
(Sitting in the back, clueless and not smoking, does my head in). So FSX
jets for me are strictly manual take-off from the book; Auto / FD
everything terminating in autoland, everytime.

:-)

Osbert (etc etc)

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 12:25 pm
From: NM5K

On 11/27/2011 2:29 AM, Osbert Whittlebot wrote:

> D'accord. Hence my recommendation, to all simmers, of Ant's Moth.
>
> Heavy metal? Exec. Jets? etc - I can't do them, because I haven't done
> the ground schools in their systems; nor flying school in the duties,
> responsibilities and disciplines of operating them. If ever I sim
> Jetwork its only to reccy real passenger flights I am booked on.
> (Sitting in the back, clueless and not smoking, does my head in). So FSX
> jets for me are strictly manual take-off from the book; Auto / FD
> everything terminating in autoland, everytime.
>
> :-)
>
> Osbert (etc etc)

If everyone liked the same planes or flying experience,
the world would probably get boring..
Some people are not near as hard core about realism as I am,
and that's no problem at all if they are enjoying what they do.
I might try the Moth, but generally planes that go that slow
don't get out of my hanger too often, unless I want to terrify
the driving public buzzing highways, etc.. :)
I like to do that when under the clinical supervision of a doktor.
:|

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 3:29 pm
From: BillW50

Do I enjoy both RC simulators and flight simulators (even both in real
life). But when you switch from one to the other, the flight simulator
seems like your flying a snail. ;-)

Using both, you know what one of my favorite view is? It is chase plane
view. This is in both RC and flight simulators. I guess it is like a
mixture of both. Plus the scenery is great. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v3.0
Centrino Core2 Duo 2GHz - 1.5GB - Windows 7

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 4:59 am
From: Iain Smith

On 26/11/2011 16:30, Peter Greenstein wrote:
> OK NM, I follow you now.
>
> Thanks for the link. Yes, the video of the NGX is impressive. I did
> follow somewhat the recent discussion of these products and may take
> the plunge.
>
> I must admit that so far I have tried to follow the navigation routes,
> SID's etc. manually. Not realistically for today's flying, but perhaps
> something like what was common in the past. Also perhaps reflecting
> what would happen if re-directed?
>
> Still, it would be nice to have the FMC option. This is too bad.
> Personally, other than using gps to "D-Waypoint" flight, I don't use
> FSX's flight direction. Apparently you say FSX will send the plane to
> the correct locations. That's done by saving/filing an IFR flight
> plan? Would FSX handle some SID's or STAR's or are the intersections
> not in its database? I see the complete route (including selected
> STAR/SID) in Flight Commander but haven't tried sticking it into any
> flight director software.
>
> Yes, I do like a certain amount of realism in FS, though completely
> automating a flight ("wire-to-wire") is also starting to take away
> some of the fun and challenge. It's certainly safer, more accurate,
> though Walt has a point about watching grass grow!
>
>
Although not a RW pilot, if I can chip in here with a clarification. NM
has mentioned the two modes that the FMC uses, LNAV and VNAV. I found it
helpful to know what they stand for.

LNAV is lateral navigation - i.e. the a/craft follows the direction that
the route takes.

VNAV is vertical navigation - the a/craft reaches certain altitudes (and
speeds) at certain points along the route, these all being calculated by
the FMC.

I hope this helps.

Iain
Rugby, UK

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Just Flight B757 Freemium
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/a422938e4ca95fff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 5:37 am
From: "Danny"

Main FSX directory. Justflight folder (just below Gauges Folder)

wrote in message news:biq3d79son6conq08h86api5advsqgd4qh@4ax.com...

I have downloaded and installed the B757 "Freemium" from Just Flight,
but can't find a manual for it. Web-search has been unsuccessful - any
suggestions?

Martin C

S34° 50'36"
E138° 41'19"
10nm from YPAD

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 3:15 pm
From: meduseld@optusnet.com._remove_this_.au

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 08:37:38 -0500, "Danny" <drmckee@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Main FSX directory. Justflight folder (just below Gauges Folder)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>wrote in message news:biq3d79son6conq08h86api5advsqgd4qh@4ax.com...
>
>I have downloaded and installed the B757 "Freemium" from Just Flight,
>but can't find a manual for it. Web-search has been unsuccessful - any
>suggestions?
>
Thanks Danny. Never thought of looking there and don't recall any
reference to it in the installation process.

Martin C

S34° 50'36"
E138° 41'19"
10nm from YPAD

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Atlanta SID and STARS
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/16c66c99f40aa2e8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 6:19 am
From: "Danny"

Here is a link that shows one of the primary STAR leading to Atlanta, KATL
from the northeast. The white planes are inbound to ATL, The light blue had
departed ATL and the green are passing through Atlanta Center's airspace.

I love this site. Amazing to listen as the controllers space the planes by
adjusting speed, heading, etc.

http://www.airtrafficatlanta.com/radar.php?radar=1

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 2:35 pm
From: Dallas

> http://www.airtrafficatlanta.com/radar.php?radar=1

Wow. I'm on my iPod now, I can't wait to try it on my desktop.

--
Dallas

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Handy Link with some aviation stuff
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/bfca03b70e165f50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 7:17 am
From: "Danny"

Here is a link to a site that has some aviations stuff, databases, formulas
rules of thumb, etc.

http://www.flightsimaviation.com/

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 8:07 am
From: SORSRR

Thanks Danny. Good find!

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:17:13 -0500, "Danny" <drmckee@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Here is a link to a site that has some aviations stuff, databases, formulas
>rules of thumb, etc.
>
>http://www.flightsimaviation.com/
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Seven Seas Deluxe
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim/t/dba2756dfe723cab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 7:59 am
From: Tom Duhamel

On 2011-11-22 22:28, Dallas wrote:
> a question about hot
> cargo areas

Actually, I like hot cargo areas. Don't you?

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 8:54 am
From: Nancy Beagle

Hey gang what kind of frame rates can I expect using an AMD 3850 quad,
8g ram, and a ATI hd 6550 card?

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 9:35 am
From: waxman80014

On Nov 27, 9:54 am, Nancy Beagle <nancbea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey gang what kind of frame rates can I expect using an AMD 3850 quad,
> 8g ram, and a ATI hd 6550 card?

What games do you want to play on it?

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:15 am
From: Tom Duhamel

On 2011-11-27 11:54, Nancy Beagle wrote:
> Hey gang what kind of frame rates can I expect using an AMD 3850 quad,
> 8g ram, and a ATI hd 6550 card?

Hi Nancy,

I don't remember having saw your name before, so welcome aboard.

Firstly, the information that you provided is somewhat low, but there is
one assumption that I can make, it seems that you are heading toward a
low-budget buy. If that assumption is right, I guess this machine won't
be a total failure, though it's not optimal.

The Fusion family of processors (which is what you are looking for,
according to the part numbers you provided) are targeted toward lower
end desktop PCs and laptops. The basic concept is that they integrate a
processor and a graphics chipset on a single die. In theory, this should
lead to better results than having a separate graphics chipset located
elsewhere on the motherboard, and according to critics this goal was
achieved. However, this won't compete against a dedicated graphics card.
(I have no first-hand experience with that family of processors.)

That said, FSX/FS9 need more CPU (main processor) power than GPU
(graphics processor) power. That does not mean that FS won't benefit
from a real, dedicated graphics card, but it won't use it as much as
other games. As such, it's possible to run FS decently on an integrated
graphics chipset, but you will have to lower many sliders to achieve a
reasonable frame rate.

If you are not on a tight budget, or if you are serious about FS, you
should consider something else.

For instance, get a dedicated graphics card instead. On that note,
nVidia GeForce are usually seen as superior to the ATI Radeon in regard
to FS (I don't mean that ATI is inferior in general, just that GeForce
performs better when it comes to FS). The GeForce 460GX is quite
suitable, especially for it's price.

As for the processor, you have a few choices. If you wish to go with
AMD, than the current higher end line is the Phenom II. The quad-cores
in that series have come down to a very reasonable price (I currently
own the 965, a quad-core @ 3.4 GHz). The 6- and 8-cores are more
expensive, and FSX won't get much benefits out of them. For a lower
budget, the dual-cores in that series have come very cheap, if you can
find them at all (please be aware that the dual-cores are actually
quad-cores with two cores disabled -- it is possible to enable them and
if the processor is a recent build, it will usually work fine).

On the Intel side of things, i7 is the current high-end line, but you
will pay a lot for them. For a more reasonable budget, the i5 series is
probably what you will want to look into (i5 is somewhat equivalent to
the Phenom II). The i3 and Core2 lines have become cheap, but their
power is somewhat low for today's standards.

For decent FSX performance, I wouldn't go lower than a Phenom II or an i5.

As a last note, FSX will benefit more from a higher CPU clock (minimum 3
GHz, more is better) than more cores. That is, if you have to make a
choice in between more cores or faster clock, pick the latter.

I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask more questions, give more
details, etc. Expect many more replies from other members, and consider
all opinions. You may want to know that the people here are more active
on week days than on week ends, therefore you will probably get more
replies tomorrow.

Tom :)

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 11:06 am
From: Osbert Whittlebot

On 27/11/11 16:54, Nancy Beagle wrote:
> Hey gang what kind of frame rates can I expect using an AMD 3850 quad,
> 8g ram, and a ATI hd 6550 card?

Hi Nancy

Should be able to maintain c20fps on that sort of kit - but depends upon
your reality / detail settings, which are determined by your usage
profile. If you are happy with GA aircraft @ 0 - 20.000' and 0 - 200kts
type flying then you can actually get super visuals and acceptable
performance out of single-core CPU (2.4Gig or faster), c3Gig of
600/800Meg RAM and a budget 1024Gig GPU card. A faster CPU and faster
RAM will enable you to push all the sliders well to the right and
achieve a consistent 20fps.

A lot of the memory issues are about contention. If you are deeply into
multi-tasking and like to play FSX whilst having your 'puter do lots of
other things for you at the same time then you may run into memory
issues affecting performance; although running it as a legacy app in
64bit Windows will reduce this probability a lot. If you like flying
very fast and very low you may find the display stuttering as it hits
the disk I/O bottleneck

Hope this helps

Osbert (etc, etc)

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 10:46 am
From: Nancy Beagle

FSX is my main concern.

AMD A8-3850 Quad 2.9 ghz coupled with ATI Radeon HD-6550 graphics card
and 8g 1333mhz ram. If I can get 18fps I will be happy.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 12:12 pm
From: "MikeW"

Tom Duhamel wrote:
> On 2011-11-27 11:54, Nancy Beagle wrote:
>> Hey gang what kind of frame rates can I expect using an AMD 3850
>> quad, 8g ram, and a ATI hd 6550 card?
>
>
> Hi Nancy,
>
> I don't remember having saw your name before, so welcome aboard.
>

Hey Tom, see below, it's Frank Beagle. Here are some of his past posts.

Nancy Beagle Re: B17 Flying Fortress crashes sortly after T/O at KARR
16/06/2011 16:28
Nancy Beagle Re: OT Rednecks getting ready for duck season 05/07/2011 15:23

Nancy Beagle Re: EAA's AirVenture Oshkosh 06/07/2011 18:12

Nancy Beagle Re: EAA Airventure 2011 21/07/2011 18:23

Photo here....http://vimeo.com/29521753

--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK
Never fly the 'A' model of anything.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 12:12 pm
From: NM5K

On 11/27/2011 12:46 PM, Nancy Beagle wrote:
> FSX is my main concern.
>
> AMD A8-3850 Quad 2.9 ghz coupled with ATI Radeon HD-6550 graphics card
> and 8g 1333mhz ram. If I can get 18fps I will be happy.

That should be doable I would think if running default
aircraft, or ones that aren't too CPU hungry.
Even with pretty dense FSX scenery I would think it
would run OK.
But this is just guessing as I've never seen or run
one. I'm running a Phenom II at 3.5 ghz with just the onboard
ATI-HD 4200 and it runs FSX pretty well.
With default sim and aircraft, I get much higher than 18 fps.
BTW, with such systems, it's usually better to lock the
frame rate than to leave it at unlimited. You will get less
stuttering when taxiing, etc..
So if 18 is OK, I'd lock it say at 20 fps, even if it will
do 30-40 in some places. It will seem smoother with the
locked frame rate. As long as I can get at least 20 or so, I'm
generally a happy camper.

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 12:56 pm
From: "Loek"

Finally I am about to purchase FSX. But which one do I need? There seems to
be the regular edition, the DeLuxe edition and the Gold edition. Is this the
one with the acceleration pack? And what is that for?
I know I should know all that, but I've been a little busy with other
priorities and FSX was out of my scope for a while. No, nothing serious. I'm
only involved with things I like to do and having fun with doing. Yep, a
happy camper :-))

Thanks,

Loek

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 1:22 pm
From: NM5K

On 11/27/2011 2:56 PM, Loek wrote:
> Finally I am about to purchase FSX. But which one do I need? There seems to
> be the regular edition, the DeLuxe edition and the Gold edition. Is this the
> one with the acceleration pack? And what is that for?
> I know I should know all that, but I've been a little busy with other
> priorities and FSX was out of my scope for a while. No, nothing serious. I'm
> only involved with things I like to do and having fun with doing. Yep, a
> happy camper :-))
>
> Thanks,
>
> Loek
>
>

Gold. It has the Deluxe sim, all the latest service packs and
Acceleration.
You can get it cheap on fleabay, and often in stores.
I only paid $29.99 for it at a Fry's, but I think the regular
price there is $39.99.. I see it cheap on fleabay most times
I look..

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 1:31 pm
From: Gregory

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 21:56:19 +0100, "Loek" <justask@me.nl> wrote:

>Finally I am about to purchase FSX. But which one do I need? There seems to
>be the regular edition, the DeLuxe edition and the Gold edition. Is this the
>one with the acceleration pack? And what is that for?
>I know I should know all that, but I've been a little busy with other
>priorities and FSX was out of my scope for a while. No, nothing serious. I'm
>only involved with things I like to do and having fun with doing. Yep, a
>happy camper :-))
>
>Thanks,
>
>Loek

Go for the works, Loek. The full-blown edition.

-G

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 1:54 pm
From: Osbert Whittlebot

On 27/11/11 20:56, Loek wrote:
> Finally I am about to purchase FSX. But which one do I need? There seems to
> be the regular edition, the DeLuxe edition and the Gold edition. Is this the
> one with the acceleration pack? And what is that for?
> I know I should know all that, but I've been a little busy with other
> priorities and FSX was out of my scope for a while. No, nothing serious. I'm
> only involved with things I like to do and having fun with doing. Yep, a
> happy camper :-))
>
> Thanks,
>
> Loek
>
>
The best you can afford (ideally Gold - which includes the SDK). Don't
forget to patch it up to SP2 (both SP's free from MS site).

Enjoy

Osbert (etc, etc)

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 2:08 pm
From: NM5K

On 11/27/2011 3:54 PM, Osbert Whittlebot wrote:

>>
>>
> The best you can afford (ideally Gold - which includes the SDK). Don't
> forget to patch it up to SP2 (both SP's free from MS site).
>
> Enjoy
>
> Osbert (etc, etc)

You don't need to do that if you install Acceleration.
Acceleration includes FSX SP2.
So if you buy the Gold version, it already has the latest
service packs assuming you install all three DVD's.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 27 2011 3:05 pm
From: raamman

On Nov 27, 5:08 pm, NM5K <n...@invalid.net> wrote:
> On 11/27/2011 3:54 PM, Osbert Whittlebot wrote:
>
>
>
> > The best you can afford (ideally Gold - which includes the SDK). Don't
> > forget to patch it up to SP2 (both SP's free from MS site).
>
> > Enjoy
>
> > Osbert (etc, etc)
>
> You don't need to do that if you install Acceleration.
> Acceleration includes FSX SP2.
> So if you buy the Gold version, it already has the latest
> service packs assuming you install all three DVD's.

no one wants to suggest x10?

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